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Lebron James final "home" quarter in Cleveland?
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Author:  NearWessSideHussra [ Tue May 11, 2010 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Lebron James final "home" quarter in Cleveland?

Celtics by 21 with 10 minutes to go.

Author:  crosscheck [ Tue May 11, 2010 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lebron James final "home" quarter in Cleveland?

shouldn't you be watching the hawks?

Author:  NearWessSideHussra [ Tue May 11, 2010 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lebron James final "home" quarter in Cleveland?

Intermission.

Author:  crosscheck [ Tue May 11, 2010 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lebron James final "home" quarter in Cleveland?

8)

Author:  NearWessSideHussra [ Tue May 11, 2010 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lebron James final "home" quarter in Cleveland?

Image

Author:  schmitty1121 [ Tue May 11, 2010 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lebron James final "home" quarter in Cleveland?

Mike Brown might want to start working on that resume. This was a huge choke. You can't lose this game, if you're a number 1 seed.

Author:  HOVA [ Tue May 11, 2010 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lebron James final "home" quarter in Cleveland?

The fact they lost by 32 at home is awful.

Author:  Brick [ Wed May 12, 2010 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lebron James final "home" quarter in Cleveland?

Unless he has a big game and saves the day in game 6 this will hurt his legacy greatly.

If you are the best player on the planet you can't totally disappear like that in the most important game in franchise history up to this point.

Author:  BD [ Wed May 12, 2010 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lebron James final "home" quarter in Cleveland?

Are those who think Jordan was better still idiots (at least according to Boers and Bernstein)?

Author:  Brick [ Wed May 12, 2010 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lebron James final "home" quarter in Cleveland?

BD wrote:
Are those who think Jordan was better still idiots (at least according to Boers and Bernstein)?
Let's see how Lebron bounces back in game 6. It's not like Jordan never had a bad game. He just always came back and made up for it.

Author:  HOVA [ Wed May 12, 2010 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lebron James final "home" quarter in Cleveland?

BD wrote:
Are those who think Jordan was better still idiots (at least according to Boers and Bernstein)?


While LeBron could end up better than Jordan they are complete idiots to believe he is better now.

Author:  BD [ Wed May 12, 2010 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lebron James final "home" quarter in Cleveland?

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
BD wrote:
Are those who think Jordan was better still idiots (at least according to Boers and Bernstein)?
Let's see how Lebron bounces back in game 6. It's not like Jordan never had a bad game. He just always came back and made up for it.


Fair - I don't discount, and it may even be likely, that James dominates the remainder of this series, and Cleveland wins in 7.

Author:  BD [ Wed May 12, 2010 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lebron James final "home" quarter in Cleveland?

HOVA wrote:
BD wrote:
Are those who think Jordan was better still idiots (at least according to Boers and Bernstein)?


While LeBron could end up better than Jordan they are complete idiots to believe he is better now.


Even if they believe that James is better than Jordan right now, it's pretty ridiculous of them to say you're an idiot if you don't agree with them on this.

Author:  SHARK [ Wed May 12, 2010 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lebron James final "home" quarter in Cleveland?

If it was the last home game, LeBron really stunk, shoulder or no shoulder. This was supposed to be the Cavaliers' best chance to win a championship for a city that has nothing to show for it since the old Browns in 1964. Chances are, if the Cavs lose in Game 6 tomorrow in Boston, it may not only enhance LeBron leaving as a free agent this summer, but I've also got to wonder about head coach Mike Brown. He was outcoached last year in the Eastern Conference Finals by the Ron Jeremy-looking Stan Van Gundy and the Magic, and appears to be getting outcoached again by Glenn "Doc" Rivers and a Celtics' team that kinda struggled and appeared to be showing their age down the stretch. If Brown's Cavs are eliminated tomorrow, he should never be allowed to coach in the NBA again! He makes Vinny Del Negro look like a genius in comparison!

Author:  Brick [ Mon May 17, 2010 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lebron James final "home" quarter in Cleveland?

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
If you are the best player on the planet you can't totally disappear like that in the most important game in franchise history up to this point.
I think that series will be a defining moment of Lebron's career unless he goes on a Jordan-like stretch where he was clearly the best player for 8 years(including his hiatus). It wasn't just that the team lost but it was how bad he looked even if he put up decent looking numbers. I'm more knowledgeable now than I was when Jordan was working towards winning his first title but I don't think that ever happened to Jordan.

Lebron is a more complete player than Jordan but he's got a lot of work to do to be a better player in the future. If anything, Lebron is just as good as Jordan was but Jordan went to another level that no one else ever had around this time in his career. This is the same level that Kobe topped out at.

One of the things that I was thinking of while watching his final game in a Cleveland uniform was that his total skill set may actually be a detriment to him. He relied on his teammates all season because he is really good at distributing the ball. In crunch time, the other Cavs would sometimes go whole possessions without Lebron touching the ball in a meaningful way. You can't have the greatest player in the world just standing there.

Lebron had a big chance to prove how great of a player he is. He didn't and if anything he did the opposite and showed that having a better all around game doesn't mean you are a better player. I'm not ready to give up on Lebron but there is no way that I'd say that Lebron is better than Jordan was at the same age. I knew they may lose to a good team in the Celtics but the best player in NBA history doesn't go down like that.

Author:  FavreFan [ Mon May 17, 2010 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lebron James final "home" quarter in Cleveland?

I agree with you on every point except LBJ being better and more complete than MJ. I just dont think he is as good as MJ was at his peak right now. Maybe he gets better. Two years in a row of losing as the favorite isnt a good trend to be starting though.

Author:  NSJ [ Mon May 17, 2010 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lebron James final "home" quarter in Cleveland?

SHARK wrote:
If Brown's Cavs are eliminated tomorrow, he should never be allowed to coach in the NBA again! He makes Vinny Del Negro look like a genius in comparison!


Never coach again? VDN a genius by comparison?

Yes - the expectations were much greater, but the guy is 272-138 in the regular season and 42-29 in the post-season. There have been coaches who had nowhere near the track record who were "allowed" to coach again.

Author:  Brick [ Mon May 17, 2010 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lebron James final "home" quarter in Cleveland?

FavreFan wrote:
I agree with you on every point except LBJ being better and more complete than MJ. I just dont think he is as good as MJ was at his peak right now. Maybe he gets better. Two years in a row of losing as the favorite isnt a good trend to be starting though.
I don't think he's as good as MJ was at his peak. I think he's as good as Jordan at the same age.

I do think he is a more complete player. I don't think Jordan was the unstoppable force of both rebounding and assists. However, that may actually hurt him in the long run as deferring to others too much. He may need to shape his game to make himself more of an offensive weapon while lowering his assists/rebounds totals.

Author:  HOVA [ Mon May 17, 2010 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lebron James final "home" quarter in Cleveland?

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
If you are the best player on the planet you can't totally disappear like that in the most important game in franchise history up to this point.
I think that series will be a defining moment of Lebron's career unless he goes on a Jordan-like stretch where he was clearly the best player for 8 years(including his hiatus). It wasn't just that the team lost but it was how bad he looked even if he put up decent looking numbers. I'm more knowledgeable now than I was when Jordan was working towards winning his first title but I don't think that ever happened to Jordan.

Lebron is a more complete player than Jordan but he's got a lot of work to do to be a better player in the future. If anything, Lebron is just as good as Jordan was but Jordan went to another level that no one else ever had around this time in his career. This is the same level that Kobe topped out at.

One of the things that I was thinking of while watching his final game in a Cleveland uniform was that his total skill set may actually be a detriment to him. He relied on his teammates all season because he is really good at distributing the ball. In crunch time, the other Cavs would sometimes go whole possessions without Lebron touching the ball in a meaningful way. You can't have the greatest player in the world just standing there.

Lebron had a big chance to prove how great of a player he is. He didn't and if anything he did the opposite and showed that having a better all around game doesn't mean you are a better player. I'm not ready to give up on Lebron but there is no way that I'd say that Lebron is better than Jordan was at the same age. I knew they may lose to a good team in the Celtics but the best player in NBA history doesn't go down like that.


Well said. I'm on record as saying I believe no one in history has had more talent than LeBron. LeBron issues are mental. I'm not so sure that hasn't always been the problem but we usually give him a pass for it. Now I'm not sure if he will be better than Kobe let alone MJ.

Author:  FavreFan [ Mon May 17, 2010 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lebron James final "home" quarter in Cleveland?

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I agree with you on every point except LBJ being better and more complete than MJ. I just dont think he is as good as MJ was at his peak right now. Maybe he gets better. Two years in a row of losing as the favorite isnt a good trend to be starting though.
I don't think he's as good as MJ was at his peak. I think he's as good as Jordan at the same age.

I do think he is a more complete player. I don't think Jordan was the unstoppable force of both rebounding and assists. However, that may actually hurt him in the long run as deferring to others too much. He may need to shape his game to make himself more of an offensive weapon while lowering his assists/rebounds totals.


Well it's too difficult to compare MJ and LeBron. While I dont think LeBron was as good as MJ at age 25, he definitely wasnt even close to MJ at the end of their seventh seasons as pros. Either way I think the comparison is ridiculous and only being perpetuated because the media collectively, and prematurely, decided Kobe was done and they didnt have anyone left to compare LeBron to.

Author:  HOVA [ Mon May 17, 2010 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lebron James final "home" quarter in Cleveland?

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I agree with you on every point except LBJ being better and more complete than MJ. I just dont think he is as good as MJ was at his peak right now. Maybe he gets better. Two years in a row of losing as the favorite isnt a good trend to be starting though.
I don't think he's as good as MJ was at his peak. I think he's as good as Jordan at the same age.

I do think he is a more complete player. I don't think Jordan was the unstoppable force of both rebounding and assists. However, that may actually hurt him in the long run as deferring to others too much. He may need to shape his game to make himself more of an offensive weapon while lowering his assists/rebounds totals.


With the rules of the game he could average 40 if he wanted to. He doesn't have the mental toughness. That separates the great from the all time great. IMO Derrick Coleman had far more talent than Malone or Barkley but he was a complete nutcase. Add Richard Dumas to that list. Talent only gets you so far.

Author:  FavreFan [ Mon May 17, 2010 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lebron James final "home" quarter in Cleveland?

HOVA wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I agree with you on every point except LBJ being better and more complete than MJ. I just dont think he is as good as MJ was at his peak right now. Maybe he gets better. Two years in a row of losing as the favorite isnt a good trend to be starting though.
I don't think he's as good as MJ was at his peak. I think he's as good as Jordan at the same age.

I do think he is a more complete player. I don't think Jordan was the unstoppable force of both rebounding and assists. However, that may actually hurt him in the long run as deferring to others too much. He may need to shape his game to make himself more of an offensive weapon while lowering his assists/rebounds totals.


With the rules of the game he could average 40 if he wanted to. He doesn't have the mental toughness. That separates the great from the all time great. IMO Derrick Coleman had far more talent than Malone or Barkley but he was a complete nutcase. Add Richard Dumas to that list. Talent only gets you so far.


Right, which is why I assume when someone says Player A is better than Player B it means that the player is actually a better finished product right now, not just having more potential talent.

If someone wanted to say LeBron is more talented than MJ, it is debateable. I dont think it's debateable who was the better player after their 7th seasons in the NBA though.

Author:  Bagels [ Mon May 17, 2010 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lebron James final "home" quarter in Cleveland?

Richard Dumas is a major blast from the past....wow

Hadn't thought about him in ages

You're right, he had a lot of talent and potential

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