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RFA / offer sheet question... https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=91&t=48193 |
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Author: | FavreFan [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:15 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
No. If a RFA signs an offer sheet he is definitely signing with that team or his original team. Any third team is out of the running at that point. |
Author: | FavreFan [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:24 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
immessedup17 wrote: FavreFan wrote: No. If a RFA signs an offer sheet he is definitely signing with that team or his original team. Any third team is out of the running at that point. Couldn't Morrow have waited out for more offers then? I assume a team, be it the Bulls or someone else, would have definitely offered him more? I'd take Morrow for $4M a year over Redick for $6.8M a year. The good thing about JJs deal is it's front loaded. Yeah Morrow could have waited for more offers. Maybe he has Rondo's agent, IDK. |
Author: | HOVA [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:34 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
FavreFan wrote: immessedup17 wrote: FavreFan wrote: No. If a RFA signs an offer sheet he is definitely signing with that team or his original team. Any third team is out of the running at that point. Couldn't Morrow have waited out for more offers then? I assume a team, be it the Bulls or someone else, would have definitely offered him more? I'd take Morrow for $4M a year over Redick for $6.8M a year. The good thing about JJs deal is it's front loaded. Yeah Morrow could have waited for more offers. Maybe he has Rondo's agent, IDK. Not really. His salary after the first year is damn near the same as his salary for the next 2 seasons. He is NOT a $7M a year guy. Signing him for that will really make me miss Kirk more than I believe I am. He should have gotten no more than $15M over the next 3 years. |
Author: | FavreFan [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:36 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
To be fair we dont know what he'll be like here. I'm assuming he'll be asked to do alot more than in Orlando. There were many cases last year where I felt the Magic were better with him on the floor than Vince. He really has seemed to work hard and improved alot since his rookie year. I think we might be pleasantly surprised. He can do alot of things on the floor, not just shoot. |
Author: | HOVA [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:46 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
You'll hear me complain about a lot of people just because I was a HUGE fan of Hinrich's. |
Author: | Phil McCracken [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:47 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
immessedup17 wrote: FavreFan wrote: To be fair we dont know what he'll be like here. I'm assuming he'll be asked to do alot more than in Orlando. There were many cases last year where I felt the Magic were better with him on the floor than Vince. He really has seemed to work hard and improved alot since his rookie year. I think we might be pleasantly surprised. He can do alot of things on the floor, not just shoot. That's what they've been saying...but I don't think five tool player when I think of Redick. Maybe I'm still just picturing him from his college days...but could he really be the starting SG for us...? Sure he could start as long as you don't mind more athletic shooting guards dropping an easy 30 on the bulls every night. Redick guarding Wade and Deng on LeBron would be major problem. |
Author: | BD [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:50 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
Has Morrow even signed the offer sheet yet? |
Author: | FavreFan [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:00 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
immessedup17 wrote: FavreFan wrote: To be fair we dont know what he'll be like here. I'm assuming he'll be asked to do alot more than in Orlando. There were many cases last year where I felt the Magic were better with him on the floor than Vince. He really has seemed to work hard and improved alot since his rookie year. I think we might be pleasantly surprised. He can do alot of things on the floor, not just shoot. That's what they've been saying...but I don't think five tool player when I think of Redick. Maybe I'm still just picturing him from his college days...but could he really be the starting SG for us...? His dribbling, passing, and rebounding are vastly improved. He's a decent defensive player now too. He does much better at guarding guys like Ray, Rip, and Roy because his best defensive attribute is fighting through screens and pick n rolls. He's obviously not the defender Kirk or some other guys are, but you can do worse than him defensively. |
Author: | HOVA [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:05 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
BD wrote: Has Morrow even signed the offer sheet yet? Yes. |
Author: | HOVA [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:07 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
Phil McCracken wrote: Sure he could start as long as you don't mind more athletic shooting guards dropping an easy 30 on the bulls every night. Redick guarding Wade and Deng on LeBron would be major problem. Another reason why I miss Kirk. Kirk used to do a great job guarding Wade. I can't recall anyone playing Wade the way he did. I know I've said it about a thousand times but the Bulls are really going to miss Kirk. |
Author: | FavreFan [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:12 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
HOVA wrote: Phil McCracken wrote: Sure he could start as long as you don't mind more athletic shooting guards dropping an easy 30 on the bulls every night. Redick guarding Wade and Deng on LeBron would be major problem. Another reason why I miss Kirk. Kirk used to do a great job guarding Wade. I can't recall anyone playing Wade the way he did. I know I've said it about a thousand times but the Bulls are really going to miss Kirk. No they wont REALLY MISS him. He is very expendable, and at his salary. He's not a very good offensive player overall. They will certainly miss his defense. He was very good defensively. But in the next 12 months they should definitely be able to replace that. In no way is Kirk an unreplaceable player, and he's been one of my favorite Bulls of the decade(sadly). |
Author: | HOVA [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:16 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
They will miss him when SG's and PG's are torching the Bulls defense. They will miss him when they play Miami and don't have anyone that can guard Wade. The Bulls were a better team with him in the lineup. That is a fact. While his jump shot was inconsistent he was useful offensively. IMO he is a far better player than Reddick and Reddick will make $2M less than him. Don't fool yourself Reddick is just as good as Hinrich shooting the ball. |
Author: | Phil McCracken [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:19 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
I think Redick's shot is more consistent than Heinrich but I doubt he is going to do more off the dribble than Kirk. They will definately miss Heinrich's D unless they sign or trade for someone that can stay in front of athletic guards. Do you NBA guys believe that Rose will get better on defense with an actual coach talking to him instead of Vinny? |
Author: | FavreFan [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:21 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
HOVA wrote: They will miss him when SG's and PG's are torching the Bulls defense. They will miss him when they play Miami and don't have anyone that can guard Wade. The Bulls were a better team with him in the lineup. That is a fact. While his jump shot was inconsistent he was useful offensively. IMO he is a far better player than Reddick and Reddick will make $2M less than him. Don't fool yourself Reddick is just as good as Hinrich shooting the ball. JJ is definitely a better shooter. While Kirk has more PG-type talent, he doesnt seem to understand the flow of the game well and he often dribbles the ball around without actually making anything happen. JJ is a good passer and dribbler and can work well in offensive sets better than Kirk. I never said Kirk wouldnt be missed or that they are a better team without him. You have no right to make fun of my Rondo love(A legit top 2 or 3 PG in the league), if you think Kirk is the type of player that is irreplaceable. If they dont do anything to adda legit perimeter defender then yes they probably will really miss him. But I'm assuming they arent incompetent enough to just ignore their most glaring need for the next 12 months. |
Author: | HOVA [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:24 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
Reddick's career FG% is 42.3% and Kirk's is 41.5%. Reddick 3pt% is 39% and Kirk's is 38%. That's not a big difference. EVERYTHING else Kirk wins by a wide margin. Hinrich is one of the best defenders in the league. If I'm not mistaken he has been All NBA 2nd Team twice. |
Author: | FavreFan [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:27 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
HOVA wrote: Reddick's career FG% is 42.3% and Kirk's is 41.5%. Reddick 3pt% is 39% and Kirk's is 38%. That's not a big difference. EVERYTHING else Kirk wins by a wide margin. Hinrich is one of the best defenders in the league. If I'm not mistaken he has been All NBA 2nd Team twice. Kirk has been given a shitload more opportunity to aquire those numbers that he wins by a wide margin. While I think Reddick was overpaid, he's not really worth much less than $2 milion/year less than Kirk. Kirk is not that great of a player Nas. Bruce Bowen might have been the best defender in the NBA for a stretch, but overall was not considered a great player. Like I said, in no way is someone like Kirk Hinrich unreplaceable. They just need to get a legit perimeter defender and we wont miss anything else about Kirk by then. |
Author: | HOVA [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:28 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
There is no one on the roster or that is available in free agency that can replace the versatility that Kirk provided. You may be able to find a defender that can guard a guy like Wade well (Barnes) but that same guy couldn't then guard on of the better PG's in the league. It will take 2 players to replace what he provided on the defensive end. He was the best defender on the team so naturally it's safe to say the Bulls will be worse defensively. |
Author: | FavreFan [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:34 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
HOVA wrote: There is no one on the roster or that is available in free agency that can replace the versatility that Kirk provided. You may be able to find a defender that can guard a guy like Wade well (Barnes) but that same guy couldn't then guard on of the better PG's in the league. It will take 2 players to replace what he provided on the defensive end. He was the best defender on the team so naturally it's safe to say the Bulls will be worse defensively. Well your point about PG defense I dont think matters. If Thibs and Rose cant improve Rose's defense substantially, than this all might be moot. Defense in the NBA now comes with stopping the ball at the 1. Rose needs to do that. With Noah and Deng already solid to good defenders, and Thibs coaching, they will be a pretty good defensive team if Rose can improve. If they got Barnes right now, they wouldnt miss Kirk at all really. He's simply not good, almost to the point of being a detriment, offensively. He is way too talented to stagnate the offense as much as he does. |
Author: | HOVA [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:34 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
I would really like to see the post where I say Hinrich is irreplaceable? Very few players in the NBA fall into that category. |
Author: | HOVA [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:37 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
FavreFan wrote: HOVA wrote: There is no one on the roster or that is available in free agency that can replace the versatility that Kirk provided. You may be able to find a defender that can guard a guy like Wade well (Barnes) but that same guy couldn't then guard on of the better PG's in the league. It will take 2 players to replace what he provided on the defensive end. He was the best defender on the team so naturally it's safe to say the Bulls will be worse defensively. Well your point about PG defense I dont think matters. If Thibs and Rose cant improve Rose's defense substantially, than this all might be moot. Defense in the NBA now comes with stopping the ball at the 1. Rose needs to do that. With Noah and Deng already solid to good defenders, and Thibs coaching, they will be a pretty good defensive team if Rose can improve. If they got Barnes right now, they wouldnt miss Kirk at all really. He's simply not good, almost to the point of being a detriment, offensively. He is way too talented to stagnate the offense as much as he does. Sorry if I don't buy into a specialty coach making someone better. After watching the Bears and the Cubs hitters I'm not going to buy into that even though I do believe Coach T is a great defensive coach. |
Author: | Urlacher's missing neck [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:39 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
What happens if you go over the cap? I know there is some luxury tax, but how exactly does it work? If you go over the cap by 2 mill then don't you just pay an extra 2 mil tax? That seems to easy to do. There must be more to it than that. |
Author: | HOVA [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:47 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
The Bulls couldn't go over the cap unless they did it by trade or re-signing one of their players. |
Author: | FavreFan [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:24 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
HOVA wrote: FavreFan wrote: HOVA wrote: There is no one on the roster or that is available in free agency that can replace the versatility that Kirk provided. You may be able to find a defender that can guard a guy like Wade well (Barnes) but that same guy couldn't then guard on of the better PG's in the league. It will take 2 players to replace what he provided on the defensive end. He was the best defender on the team so naturally it's safe to say the Bulls will be worse defensively. Well your point about PG defense I dont think matters. If Thibs and Rose cant improve Rose's defense substantially, than this all might be moot. Defense in the NBA now comes with stopping the ball at the 1. Rose needs to do that. With Noah and Deng already solid to good defenders, and Thibs coaching, they will be a pretty good defensive team if Rose can improve. If they got Barnes right now, they wouldnt miss Kirk at all really. He's simply not good, almost to the point of being a detriment, offensively. He is way too talented to stagnate the offense as much as he does. Sorry if I don't buy into a specialty coach making someone better. After watching the Bears and the Cubs hitters I'm not going to buy into that even though I do believe Coach T is a great defensive coach. Obviously KG probably inlfuenced some of it but PP and Ray got noticeably better defensively after they all formed up. The Bears coaching staff is compiled of a bunch of failed, hand me down boobs. Wouldnt use them as a comparison. |
Author: | FavreFan [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:01 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
Carrie wrote: I'm really depressed about this Morrow thing Is his defense, desire, or ball control just more than Thibs could take or what? Really, you're depressed over not getting Morrow? That's kinda sad. |
Author: | Phil McCracken [ Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:40 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
FavreFan wrote: Carrie wrote: I'm really depressed about this Morrow thing Is his defense, desire, or ball control just more than Thibs could take or what? Really, you're depressed over not getting Morrow? That's kinda sad. More sad than pretending to be a woman on a sports message board? |
Author: | FavreFan [ Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:47 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
Phil McCracken wrote: FavreFan wrote: Carrie wrote: I'm really depressed about this Morrow thing Is his defense, desire, or ball control just more than Thibs could take or what? Really, you're depressed over not getting Morrow? That's kinda sad. More sad than pretending to be a woman on a sports message board? No probably not more sad than that. I frankly dont give a shit whether or not people think that's me. It's definitely not. |
Author: | Phil McCracken [ Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:11 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
FavreFan wrote: Phil McCracken wrote: More sad than pretending to be a woman on a sports message board? No probably not more sad than that. I frankly dont give a shit whether or not people think that's me. It's definitely not. Wasn't trying to say it was you. Just commenting on the sadness of creating a female persona on here when you are obviously a dude. I struggle to understand the CSFMB sometimes |
Author: | Free Ajent [ Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:14 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: RFA / offer sheet question... |
Phil McCracken wrote: I struggle to understand the CSFMB sometimes Don't even bother I never even tried to do that i'd go crazy |
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