We all consider him to be at worst a top 2 coach and he's won 4 championships but I'm starting to believe he might be overrated. He beat some awful teams in the Finals (excluding Pistons) and has been bounced from the playoffs by awful teams. I don't think he should be mentioned in the same breath as Phil Jackson. What say you?

I don't think he is in the same league as Phil.

But I also do not think he is overrated. He is the best coach in the league right now. No doubt he had a bad game last night, but everyone has em. That is not reason to jump to him being overrated.

What he has done with some of the pieces around Parker and Duncan through the years has been amazing.

No chance in hell do I pick Phil over Greg.

How many seasons did Pop have the best player in the NBA on his team?

I think this is going too far, Nas. You can't hold the quality of Finals competition against him. From 2000 to about 2007 or so, the Western conference was the toughest conference by a mile. Early on you had the LA dynasty, Portland, Utah, and Sacramento. Dallas and Phoenix arrived on the scene later. I think the Nuggets or some other team missed the playoffs during this timeframe, despite having a record good enough for like the 5th or 6th seed in the East. Pop faced brutally tough competition during his four titles, there's no question about it.

I mean all time. Pop has some terrible meltdowns on his resume but people still put him above guys like Phil. In reality 5 Finals trips is kind of disappointing considering how often they have been a top 2 seed. He's never repeated either.

He beat some awful teams in the Finals (excluding Pistons) and has been bounced from the playoffs by awful teams.

How many seasons did Pop have the best player in the NBA on his team?

Only the 2 resting in heaven can be mentioned in the same breath as him.

I understand the first part of your statement, as the '99 Knicks, '03 Nets, and '07 Cavs were all teams that went beyond expectations. No dispute there. I don't know how those teams reached the finals those years.

What I will disagree with is where you say they've been bounced from the playoffs by "awful" teams. Here are the non-championship playoff losses and opponents for the Spurs since 2000:

2000: First Round loss to Phoenix (3-1)
2001: Conference Finals loss to Los Angeles (4-0)
2002: Second Round loss to Los Angeles (4-1)
2004: Second Round loss to Los Angeles (4-2)
2006: Second Round loss to Dallas (4-3)
2008: Conference Finals loss to Los Angeles (4-1)
2009: First Round loss to Dallas (4-1)
2010: Second Round loss to Phoenix (4-0)
2011: First Round loss to Memphis (4-2)
2012: Conference Finals loss to OKC (4-2)

At the most I'll give you the first round loss to Phoenix in 2000, but even they had Jason Kidd in his prime, and a young Shawn Marion. But none of those teams were "awful" in my opinion and in fact, six of those losses were to teams that went on to the Finals.

No chance in hell do I pick Phil over Greg.

He's had the greatest PF in history and arguably (by people like FF) the greatest player of this era for his entire career.

No chance in hell? Really? I mean I get having an opinion that Pop is a better coach than Phil. I don't agree with it at all, but I understand it. But to say there is no chance in hell is just silly.

For nearly every year of his career Phil Jackson had two top-50 all time players on his roster.

What teams since, say, 1980, have one because their demonstably best player was a PF or C?

I'm not suggesting this is a good point ... I just don't know the answer(s).

I believe Reader and so discussed this in the RIP Spurs thread.

Huh?

I would probably add the Pistons team with Rasheed and didn't the Lakers win in like 81' when Kareem was still better than Magic? Jordan rewrote the rules on needing a big to win.

Duncan is the greatest PF of all time and David Robinson was a top 50 player. Ginobili and Parker are HoF players too. Pop hasn't lacked talent. 13 trips to the Finals and 11 rings trumps Pop in just about everyway. Beyond that he had to manage personalities that Pop wouldn't put up with for 1 min.

I believe Reader and so discussed this in the RIP Spurs thread.