Im tired of hearing this. Until further notice, he's barely an All Star.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I've been on record as saying that Dwight Howard is one of the few stars from today's NBA that would not be able to hang with his counterparts from the 80s and 90s. If Brad Daugherty in his prime were in today's NBA, he'd be the best center in the league.

Dwight Howard would be Mark West if this were 1993.

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"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

Howard in the 90's would be like the 6-7 best center tops.

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Even lower than that, I think.

Olajuwon
Robinson
Ewing
O'Neal
Mourning
Smits
Webber
Mutombo
Daugherty
Divac
Camby
Sabonis

Dwight Howard is not better than any of those players in their primes. I'd probably put him 13th or 14th. Maybe he beats out Kevin Willis....maybe.

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Kid Cairo's Boers & Bernstein YouTube Channel

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"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

I sorta disagree with that. I think maybe his back or heart issues have something to do with him not playing well, but him 2-3 years ago could be top 5-6 in the mid 90s.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I can't think of anybody on that list I'd put him ahead of.

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Kid Cairo's Boers & Bernstein YouTube Channel

Kid Cairo: 2013 March Madness Tournament Winner!

"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

He's better than Divac, Camby and Sabonis were in their prime, though.

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Without blinking im taking him ahead of Diva , Daugherty,Camby, and Smits. I'm not counting Webber because he was. PF. I'd take young Sabonis over him if I could have drafted him in 86. I'm not taking NBA Sabonis over him. I'm taking him over Mourning and Mutumbo, but respecting disagreement. Whatever but fuck Patrick Ewing. Shaq and Robinson were clearly better. Dream is on a different level than everyone there, his peers are Russel, Kareeem, and Wilt.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

^Id definitely take Zo over Howard. Alonzo was was just as good defensively and far superior offensively. Zo had a decent jump shot, the traveling hood and could shoot free throws. He also played his heart out. I dont recall him slacking on the court

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"You can kill the revolutionary, but you can't kill the revolution."

geez....let's slow down a bit. yeah he's having a bad year so far and he's a bitch for the whole trade situation and all

but cmon.....Smits???? Divac ?

If Divac was in the league now he would have gotten a suspension by the end of the first week for flopping

I totally agree, gents.

He really hasn't added anything to his overall game since he came in the league. What has he added to his arsenal? Not much if anything.

The Dream would make him look foolish.

I called him Kevin Willis that can block shots a couple years ago and was laughed at. Once again I give thanks to my vision for helping me see something well in advance of others. He has some of the most empty stats you will ever see. He's not a winner.

How can it be that the game is so much better now when the best center in the league isn't as good as Vlade Divac?

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Getting back to the original post, I'd still take him ahead of absolutely every center in the league. And Lebron and Durant are the only two guys I would take ahead of him without any sort of thought.

Yeah I am with bagels here.

You are out of your damn mind if you think Smits and Divac were better than Howard.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I never said the game was much better now. Don't confuse me with whatever imaginary argument you had with somebody. I've always said that the 90s was my favorite era in NBA history. I hate when you do that shit. Get it right, man.

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Kid Cairo's Boers & Bernstein YouTube Channel

Kid Cairo: 2013 March Madness Tournament Winner!

"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

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Kid, stop knocking out the old men. Especially my guy JORR.

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I'm just saying, if he wants to debate me that's fine. But at least make it something that I actually said.

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"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

yeah i mean i'm not sure how HOVA can say the states are empty, he pretty much single handedly lead Orlando to the finals and Orlando was pretty much always a top 3 team in the east. don't give me jameer nelson or reddick or rashard lewis either. nelson is solid but when him or hedo turkolu are the best sidekicks you've had....

That wasn't directed at you in particular. I'm asking the question because it seems to be a pretty widely held opinion on this board and in general. If I'm not mistaken, there's a radio show that you like a lot where callers are regularly excoriated for such thoughts. I've heard time and time again how great guys like Carmelo Anthony and Dwight Howard are when whatever team they go to gets worse.

Anyway, I agree with your general premise, but I think you've probably gone too far with a couple guys on that list.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Your vision is still making you see imaginary things. I said he isn't a superstar. It's idiotic to call him average. Kevin Willis is average. And like bagels said, he's been a superstar in the past. He's a very talented guy. He's just not playing like one right now.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

It's pretty much a concensus on this board that B&B don't really know anything about the NBA. Kid has stated as much many times.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The opinion that NBA is better today than it has ever been isn't just an opinion held by B&b. A lot of people believe that and it has been expressed often in this very forum. I never suggested Kid held such an opinion. As I said, my post wasn't directed at him. It was a general question within the context of the discussion. It can't be that so many players of the past were superior to their counterparts of today while at the same time the game is faster, bigger, stronger, smarter, etc. And it isn't the case.



I agree with that, but it isn't idiotic to suggest you'd want to keep Noah on your team instead of giving him and a bunch more up to get Howard. That opinion used to get you destroyed by dan bernstein and NBA Expert Jason Goff. It got you ridiculed by a lot of people in this forum. It's an opinion HOVA has held for a long time and it doesn't seem ridiculous these days.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

I doubt you would call Joakim Noah average and I doubt you would have called Jermaine O'Neal average so please don't try to label Kevin Willis as average. Only someone who was too young to remember Kevin Willis playing meaningful basketball would call him an average player. He was an all star too. Minus the blocked shots he put up comparable numbers to Dwight Howard in the Golden Era of big men and he was the 3rd or 4th option on his team. At the end of a game you would see Kevin Willis with 20 points and 18 rebounds and wouldn't have a clue how he got them because your eyes told you he didn't have a major impact on the game. I'm sure Dominique Wilkens had a lot to do with that but Dwight Howard has similar games and he didn't have a Dominique on his team.

There are a lot of similar comparisons at other positions. Most people would agree that Reggie Miller is without a doubt a HoF player. I don't know anyone that would say Dale Ellis is a HoF player but they have very similar numbers.

Yeah, it's funny how that is. It may just be perception, but I think of Miller as the centerpiece of his teams while Ellis was just a shooter. That probably isn't really fair.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

yes it is.

Yeah, maybe it is, too. I don't know. The numbers are what they are. And the way each guy is regarded is what it is.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

ricky pierce, now there's a HoF'er

Ricky Pierce couldn't put the ball on the floor. Free candy for the defense. Great shooter though.

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Kid Cairo: 2013 March Madness Tournament Winner!

"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"