Pretty interesting article, imo.


"I tried to tank a couple years ago," Colangelo said. "And I didn't come out and say, 'Coach, you've got to lose games.' I never said that. I wanted to establish a winning tradition and a culture and all of that. But I wanted to do it in the framework of playing the young players, and with that, comes losing. There's just no way to avoid that."

Colangelo said Avery Johnson -- while coaching the then-New Jersey Nets, who already had traded their first-round pick -- was "smirking" after losing to Toronto by 31 points in the final game of the season. That win led to the Raptors picking eighth in the 2012 draft and selecting Terrence Ross.

Had they lost, they could have been in a coin flip for the No. 6 pick, which -- as Colangelo emphasized -- eventually became Damian Lillard.

Really, Colangelo said he was aiming even higher. He wanted the No. 1 pick, but Toronto coach Dwane Casey interfered.

"He did too good of a job in motivating his players," Colangelo said.


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10534 ... conference

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Thibs had a stroke reading this.

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Why not instead of eliminating the lottery the teams that lose have equal opportunities to win the lottery, so that losing the final game of the season doesn't matter for draft selection? Taking away the incentive to be the worst team would mean there is no advantage to losing.

What the NBA players association doesn't want to agree to is forcing players to be 20 to play in the NBA. I wonder how many of the lottery picks wouldn't be better players if they played 2 years of college ball. From what I've seen a lot of the 4-year college players end up making better NBA players. There were a lot of those straight out of high school kids back in the day that were never ready to play. Obviously LeBron James and Kevin Garnett were the exceptions.

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Good point mini d, check out the documentary called "Lenny Cooke" it is very good. what the NBA needs to do is pay the D league players much more, more than Europe and a viable option to college hoops n school. it would hurt NCAA hoops but fuck them...they been profiteering far too long.

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I'll agree with Mac that the NBA is a shit product.

75% of the teams try and lose after the all star break with most tanking before. Only a few try win it all anf no players really try during the regular season.

No thanks.

Agree it's not fun right now. Sure, OKC - LAC is always fun, but more often than not the typical matchup is something like MIL - NYK, or SAC - DET. All due respect to true fans of the game, but who the hell wants to see that crap on a nightly basis? I don't know how long the league can last on the marketing power of individual players. The competitive balance sucks. The second round can't get here fast enough for me.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

This isn't just an NBA problem. Tanking in the NBA usually doesn't work because of the system they have. Tanking is more of an issue in the NFL and MLB.

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Tanking isnt an NFL issue. Guys play hard no matter what. Especially guys on bad teams because they know a turnover is coming and each play they make is worth money $$$. The NFL more than any sport a guy wants a good tape to show.

Addtionally, forcing a team to pay out $110 mill just doesnt allow teams to be intentionally bad. Now, you can draft a QB and try him as your #1 (Ponder like) and if he is terrible and you suck, you go right back to the top of the draft again, but I dont think it is tanking.

The NBA tanking issue is unmatched due to the impact one player can have on a team. While tanking in baseball gets you better players, it is far from a lock to be good. Ask Jim hendry about picking top 5!

Adam Silver should address this issue first and foremost...ON HIS OWN!....Cant financially penalize bad teams for tanking because the league is holding like $500M in loans already to those same bad teams. Its a tough thing, because I will guess the teams that need loans, are the same teams that stink. (That is my guess)

I like something like that soccer structure. B league and A league.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

yeah, because you see david stern established the pimphand that he's going to give top draft picks / certain players to whoever he wants to give them too. look at how he rewarded the bulls for keeping a full house for most of the lean post-jordan years.... they miss one playoffs with a 1.8% chance and they get the hometown kid so they have a marketing ploy for the next few years, even tho nobody knew it'd peak during the 2010-11 season.

that's what so frustrates me about the bulls this year.... the NBA picks and chooses who gets what, and while they dont wanna cripple shit franchises who tank necessarily, if the bulls drop down into the lottery for one freak year the NBA's gonna hook 'em up cuz they know the league is best when CHI/NYK/LA are relevant. if the knicks/lakers make the lottery you bet your ass wiggins/parker/whoever is going to those teams.... that's just what it is, the NBA is exceedingly good at making $$$ i mean look at the bill of goods they sold you with jordan. you're literally chastised as an idiot if you lived through the 90s and dont worship him as god, and i'm not saying i don't but comeon there was a different set of rules for the guy because they were building an international brand and needed superman and low and behold, you got superman with an asterik that nobody will ever put on it because they WANT to believe in heroes/gods/etc and teh NBA used to that to get to where they are. they aint dummies.

so yeah, the NBA is what it is and this is why the bulls infuriate me so....[ fuck you joakim go off elsewhere and go be a high energy spaz... i want skill players and SURPRISE SURPRISE you're not one of them. and if they gotta lose 60 games to have a crack at getting a real one who could do something, then i hope they trade you for a bag of chips you fucking french dipshit.

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Tanking happens in the NFL more often than any other sport because draft position is determined by nothing else but your record. The Texans were considered a Super Bowl team to start the year and after a couple of early losses they became the worst team in the NFL and now they'll get the #1 pick. When the Bobcats finished with the worst record in the NBA they didn't get the #1 pick.

Not being good enough to compete for a title is more of a problem in the NBA. Those fortunes don't change with a bad season unless you're lucky enough to get the top spot and land a LeBron James. The NFL has created a system that creates greater parity. That's something the NBA hasn't been able to figure out how to do.

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If the NBA would let all the teams enter the playoffs, then nobody would tank. #JuneMadness

I just dont think it does as teams have a shot much further into the season due to Wildcards and organizations know that winning, yet alone hosting even a wildcard game is worth $5 to $15 mill. It just keep teams trying.

I dont doubt teams as an organization give up and the command from the GM's office is given to play younger guys, but that is to see what you have, not to intentionally lose.

Texas for example would have been happy as hell if case showed he is a real QB and they didnt need a QB. They didnt expect it, but they did draft him and then you take that shot with him.

As Colangelo said, you need to see who can play and who cant, thus a by product of that is losing.

In the NBA, a team knows they are done before the all star break and they start tanking then. Thats a huge problem, the point in the season which teams start sucking.

_________________
"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

I agree that is part of it, but the teams would still tank if they have a chance at players like LeBron, Durant, Rose, etc. Thats the issue that the NFL doesnt have. While you think Andrew Luck is a great QB and he will be great for your team, you still need to build a team for the guy, so his impact might not be felt.

The impact of one pick in the NBA is much more impactful

_________________
"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Tanking happens in the NBA way more than any other sport. In the NFL, there are almost always bubble playoff teams getting knocked off by bottom dwellers in week 16 and 17. Every NFL game is winnable. The NBA lottery system does not at all discourage teams from tanking. They will still take the better odds of getting a higher pick. The way the NBA is designed is ripe for tanking, as opposed to the NFL where you have a 16-game schedule with incentive-laden contracts and young players trying to prove themselves. In addition, the game of football itself is much more prone to upsets than the NBA, so it would be extremely difficult to tank even if you played all 2nd-stringers. A big play here or there leads to an upset. This simply doesn't happen in basketball.

Also, I don't know that the NBA is trying to create the parity of the NFL. They have always been a star and dynasty driven league. I personally don't have a problem with dynasties or stars. I have a problem with the fact that 90% of the league can't even compete for a title on any given year. I'm OK with the fact that the Heat might win 3 straight championships. I'm not OK with the fact that they are so much better than 90% of the league that it's not even worth watching.

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Absolutely true. One player in the NBA can make you competitive for years.

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The championship Bulls teams lost to the Raptor and the Grizzlies at times. Bad teams can also beat great teams in the NBA. It happens more often in football because there are more players involved. When a football team makes a bad acquisition they can release that player without a huge penalty. When an NBA team makes a bad decision they are stuck with that player and contract for years. It's a lot harder to get out of basketball hell than it is for football. NBA teams aren't tanking they just aren't very good in comparison to the top teams in the league. The league needs more parity but a draft system that doesn't reward the worst team in the league isn't the problem.

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If basketball playoffs were one game win or go home each round you would have less tanking. Its not often the better team loses a seven game series in the NBA.

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Yep. It's the nature of basketball combined with a 7-game series. The number of possessions in the sport of basketball and the frequency of scoring makes upsets unusual. In basketball, if Lebron James dribbles off his foot and the Heat lose a possession against a lesser team, it's no big deal. They will have 100 more opportunities to score or stop the other team from scoring. In football, if a guy fumbles, it is a HUGE deal because the number of scoring opportunities and frequency of scoring is much lower. A 6-point swing is basketball is 3% of total output if the teams combine for 200 points. In football, a 14-point swing (turnover and a score) is probably about 25% of the total output.

When this is combined with the fact that basketball has 7-game series, the better team nearly ALWAYS wins a playoff series in basketball. I will agree with Nas in that the number of players playing at one time makes a large difference, too, but it is due almost completely to the number of possessions in basketball. As a result, basketball in general has a very low tolerance for parity, but the NBA also doesn't do much to help this "problem."

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Along with this, on an individual level, I'd also say it's simply easier to become Arian Foster than it is LeBron James or Kobe Bryant. Part of the difficulty in populating each team with a superstar in the nba can be solved by eliminating a handful of teams. Football is wide open because the nature of the game reduces the impact of talent differences between two teams. Not so in basketball - talent, because it is so limited, always wins out.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Everybody knows that eliminating bad teams makes for better basketball. However, once they have a set number of teams they are not going to contract because the players would never go along with that as it means some of them lose their jobs.

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To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

76ers owner labels 19 win season "huge success"

http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=10807120

PHILADELPHIA -- Billions of dollars couldn't completely console Philadelphia 76ers owner Joshua Harris this season.

Being the potential heirs of a franchise that matched an NBA-record losing streak comes with a few hardships not usually found in the luxury suites.

"When we lose, even in New York, kids come up to my family's kids and say, 'Hey, the Sixers lost 26 in a row. How do you like that?'" Harris said. "We don't like that. This is my doorman, he says to me, 'Hey, can't you get those players going?'"

Get the Sixers going? That was never the point this season, not for a franchise that decided spinning its wheels in mediocrity for most of the past decade was never going to win it a championship. The Sixers needed to gut the roster, collect draft picks, build for the future and lose games.

And lose 'em big.

So they did, including the whopping 26-game stretch that helped stick them at 19-63 and solidified a 19.9 percent chance at winning the No. 1 pick in the NBA draft.

Mission accomplished.

"I think the season has been a huge success for us," Harris said Friday.

Give Harris credit for his honesty. The Sixers hold two lottery picks (one via a trade) and never were shy about admitting they had to tank -- make that, rebuild -- this season in order to start their hopeful championship track.

"We don't use that word," Harris said of tanking.

He said losing was tough for everyone in the organization, but this season was never about the final record.

"We don't want to be 41-41. We don't want to be one-and-done," Harris said. "We want this team, this city to be proud of the Sixers. We want to be proud of the Sixers."

Philadelphia had little reason to feel proud this season. But the Sixers could at least be hopeful with what's ahead. Michael Carter-Williams, a 6-foot-6, 185-pound point guard, is the leading rookie of the year contender and played like a future All-Star. He was selected Eastern Conference rookie of the month Friday for the fourth time this season.

Nerlens Noel, the rookie center who sat out all season as he recovered from a torn anterior cruciate ligament in his left knee, dazzled coaches with his work ethic and workouts all season.

Harris said the Sixers need at least two to four elite players to become a player again in the NBA. Could two lottery picks plus Noel and Carter-Williams serve as the ingredients in the magic formula that helps lead the Sixers to their first championship since 1983?

"All these pieces are in place to make this an elite team that will compete consistently for the NBA championship," Harris said. "There's no shortcuts to it. Unfortunately, it takes a long time. I'm really happy with the progress."

Harris has faith in general manager Sam Hinkie to make the right calls, and he gave first-year coach Brett Brown an A for his leadership under trying circumstances.

He also thanked the fans for sticking with the Sixers.

"I put my football helmet on and my pads and I was ready for bottles to fly," he said. "But the fans really understand what we're trying to do. It's been 90 percent positive and 90 percent supportive and understanding."

He also urged patience and knows another dreary season is likely ahead.

"It's not why I bought the team," he said.

Harris is one of three founders of Apollo Global Management, a publicly listed alternative investment manager. The 76ers were valued this year by Forbes at $469 million, 23rd in the NBA, and have both a television deal with cable station Comcast SportsNet and a lease with the Wells Fargo Center through 2029. Harris bought the group for about $280 million in October 2011.

Apollo invests heavily in distressed properties -- which one could argue would include the Sixers. The Milwaukee Bucks were sold this week for a reported record $550 million, a sum that could make even billionaires consider selling for a tidy profit.

Harris said no way.

"Clearly, this has been a successful investment so far for the ownership group," he said. "But the reality is, I don't think we're going to sell this investment for a long time. I expect my kids to be around the Sixers. We're building this thing for the long run."

Forbes also valued the 49-year-old Harris' net worth at $2.7 billion. Harris and a partnership group bought the NHL's New Jersey Devils in August, and he refused to rule out the possibility of buying another sports franchise.

Harris also said the Sixers are considering several sites for a new practice facility and hoped to announce plans this summer. The Sixers could have it built in time for the 2016-17 season.

He said there was no decision on who would represent the team at the draft lottery.

The person at the podium doesn't matter. It's the one the Sixers take who will change the course of the franchise.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

i don't know about noel...he's too young to have surgery and at that position, i just see him having a greg oden-like career. they have done well in the past few years developing talent but i'd like to see them put it together. the owner sounds like a typical jag though.

I love his honesty. They are in great shape IF they draft right this year. They have 7 draft picks.

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sometimes you can have too much of a good thing. leaves more room to make bad decisions. i'm hoping they pull it off.

I don't think they can mess this up considering how deep this draft is. They are guaranteed 1 of the top 4 picks.

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What infuriates me about the NBA: teams will talk openly about Tanking.

Tanking is by definition openly trying to lose games as a strategy. That's just fucked up.

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011

What? No other team is talking about tanking. What do you think the Cubs and Sox are doing? They aren't trying to win this year. There is NOTHING wrong with what the Sixers did. They will be a better team because of it.

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That's the infuriating part. Teams that are actually doing it, will never say anything about it.

Meanwhile, it's obvious to everyone what they are doing... if you don't get it, don't try to explain it or clean it up. If you're going to claim on a fucking message board that it doesn't happen or play dumb; you're part of the problem.

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011

May be wrong on this but this is the first time I'm hearing about execs openly talking about tanking (not just Philly but the folks in the thread's first post as well.) Could be a sign of a younger generation of execs who don't care about letting this out into the open (beginning with Cuban). I agree with Nas though that this happens in the NFL and MLB as well, though tanking may be referred to by standard euphemisms like rebuilding, etc.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Garnett went to Texas.

_________________
"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”