Are we sure Rubio is the better player between the two? I haven't gotten to watch a ton of either one, but they seem very similar. I'm pretty concerned about Rubio's lack of progression. Bagels?

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I'm shocked that the Wolves aren't a playoff team.

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GO BEARS!!!

If they were in the East they would be.

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Based on their point differential, their Expected Win-Loss record is 48-30. They should be much better than they have been. Lost a lot of close games. But the concerning thing is that this is the third season in a row where they had a significantly worse win-loss record than their point differential would suggest.

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Rubio's 6th in the league in real +/- for PGs. Marshall isn't even on the first page.

Yeah, but quality of team heavily factors in to that, even though they tried to compartmentalize it more. There's no way Patrick Beverly, as much as I like him, has a greater impact than his nemesis Russell Westbrook on a game. I like Patty Mills, but he doesn't have more of an impact than John Wall. Manu Ginobli isn't better than James Harden, etc.

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BRick will love seeing Wall near the bottom of that list.

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Yes, I am very sure that Rubio is better. His shooting percetage is horrid still (even though it has been a better of late) but he does other things quite well. He's a fantastic passer, one of the best in the league, he's a very good rebounder for his position, he's actually a fairly decent three point shooter, he's an excellent free throw shooter and he plays the passing lanes extremely well. He's also only 23 years old. He is in his third season but I still believe it is too early to make a definitive judgement.

You're shocked? They have little outside of Love and a scoring deficient Rubio. They've also lost a slew of close games and are in a loaded conference.

He's a pretty bad 3 point shooter actually. He's a very inefficient scorer from everywhere on the court.

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Career 32.6% from 3, this season 33.9%... I call that fair. Definitely could improve a bit as could his entire scoring repertoire. Reminds you of a lesser version of a certain point guard from the recent past. That said he has to start progressing a bit more.

That's below league-average, and from what I've seen he's almost always wide open when he shoots them.

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"real" plus-minus adjusts for team strength/opponents/etc. some versions even account for coaches.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10740 ... plus-minus

I'm aware of real plus-minus and how it was formed. It's still a pretty flawed statistic.

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So Hussra, if RPM is really a great measurement of how good a player is, would you agree that there are 20 power forwards in the league this year playing better than Anthony Davis?

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Davis is 16th in WAR, 21st in RPM? Sounds like they have em right about where he belongs.

You're right. Amir Johnson, Channing Frye, and Thaddeus Young are all better players than Anthony Davis. My bad.

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Glad you agree. Davis is 88th overall, 4 spots above 69 year old Derek Fisher:

Thank you for proving my point about how unreliable that statistic is.

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It isn't a flawed statistic. How one interprets its cause and import are subjective.

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Or maybe Derek Fisher contributes more than we'd expect and Anthony Davis less.

Maybe. But not to such extremes that Fisher is a more productive player than Davis is when he's on the court. That's just mind bogglingly stupid.

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Every statistic is inherently flawed, especially ones that rely on subjective methods of evaluating what actions are more important than others.

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they have Pekovic...who is averaging 17/8
they have 2 huge issues
1, Love (aka their best player) is not really a shot creator, so in the final minutes of close games they often struggle to produce good shots. this also exacerbates Rubios shooting woes
2, their interior defense is basically non-existent. For as much praise as Love gets he's a pretty bad defender
and for as big and strong as Pekovic is, he is not a shot blocker at all.


as for the original question i haven't really watched enough of Marshall to have a feel for his game

i think we all know the issues with Rubio . i still think like Kidd, he can develop enough of an outside shot to at least become average

I feel like you haven't had enough to smoke and I haven't had enough to drink to further discuss this.

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I don't smoke much anymore. Haven't had a toke since February.

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playoffs are starting soon....

Good call. Hosting a get together?

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perhaps

I agree with FF. What goes into a seemingly objective statistic can be as subject to error and bias as an observation made by the naked eye.

One thing I hated about efficiency ratings was, to me least based on what I read on espn, that they did not account for things like minutes played, or harder to quantify things like a player's role in an offense. If Rose is playing forty a night and is responsible for clean up each time the offense stalls, then it follows that his efficiency rating will suck, but only because his usage is so high. Doesn't make him a less "efficient" player.

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