Here is the list of former ballplayers that were great local broadcasters/analysts since the mid 1960's.

* Steve Stone
* Lou Boudreau
* Jimmy Piersall


Anyone else?

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

Ya know how if a buddy had a crazy uncle it was funny but if he was your uncle it was annoying or sad?

Well... Brian Kenny's thought...

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

SABRmetrics is great and everyone uses it, but it's pretty hilarious how mad people get when someone says it sucks. Root for teams, not calculators you nerds.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

He stole it, too.

And I added the Ortiz example!

Ok, sold!

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I have a theory that people with two first names are trouble. At the very least they suck at their chosen profession. Ex.. Tim Allen, busted for dealing coke. Andy Dick, a disheveled mess who sucks at being funny. James Dean, dies in car accident. Lebron James, douchebag.

I also don't trust guys that spell their name Geoff or Sean.

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I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out. - Bill Hicks

Let's do it for Johnny!

Dallas Winston?

This is tiring. Hawk's larger point staunchly remains, that sabremetricians primary reliance on the gospels of a ton of arcane hitting metrics is foolish. For years guys like Billy Beane got away with fooling everyone, because he had a killer rotation (but no "clutch" performers under playoff pressure). Even then, when the A's played/play in an actual ballpark and not the Alameda Grand Canyon, their daunted pitching amazingly goes away. IIRC Beane's great pitching "discovery" was the great Chad Bradford, he of the submarine pitch. But everyone blindly continues to believe in the greatness in finding the sabre value of final year David Justice or Nick Swisher & his magical numbers. But ignore the value of steroid boy Giambi on the roster.

Theo continues to con everyone with his Boston roster filled with pitching and steroid monsters.
Until the genius Theo can actually find pitchers he can't take on the cheap (ie Josh Beckett), or actually develop some (other than the great Papelbon) he & the more absolute (claimed) sabremetricians will remain a joke to some of us as well.

Baseball is simply returning to pre-1990 styles and guess what, pitching remains the key. No great secret, nor sabre insights here, despite the bleatings of some. The obnoxious "I know sabremetrics, therefore I know it all" types just scream the loudest and make the most detailed/"rational"/circular/yet nonsensical arguments. And some of us realize the futility in fighting, comfortable feeling that you don't know jack about baseball, with your true talents in arguing trivial numbers ad infinitum, falsely claiming a higher intelligence than most and at great volume.

Brian Kenny types will be the death of sports. I love the game, not a damned calculus book.
OPS/BABIP/"Advanced Metrics"/etc., bullshit. All baseball is, is finding pitchers, guys who can actually catch, objective looks at ABs (making the "old Book") and figuring out a simple spray chart. BFD. Old school at it's finest.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Sabermetrics is the study of what wins games. How could you be against that?

Ken Harrellson got more pussy than Brian Kenny has ever fantasized about.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Hatch never realized what a meatball you are. Giving someone a run for a top spot!

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Weak link of the 1923 Yankees, starting SS Everett Scott. 5'8" 148 lbs. Posted like a .590 OPS.


[Everett Scott, Boston AL (baseball)] (LOC) by The Library of Congress, on Flickr

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Lovie consulted for the Giants?? Interesting.

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That's my purse! I don't know you!

I dont get it.

I understand questioning how effective the analysis is but ruining the game? Cmon son.


Are you guys against On base percentage? Cause that was once not used. How bout Whip? What is the problem there?


I think it can be a great tool but I'm not saying its magic. I do think the Rays benefit. Look at the Royals and Rays. I mean top draft picks are cool but GOOD top draft pucks are better. I think Sabr certainly aids in drafting.

I think sabr stats are useful at the major league level because that's the only level playing field. The lower the level the more useless stats become. I think sabr stats are pretty much useless on the amateur level.

You can't live and die by analytics as long as human beings are involved, but you can't fully shirk them, either. Scouting versus numbers is the dumbest fucking debate. It's like arguing whether you should have a burger or a Coke for dinner. You have them together.

That being said, I think it is worth mentioning that we may have been worshiping a false idol with Theo. The Red Sox weren't built on sabermetrics so much they were a giant Panzer tank of money, vaguely guided by sabermetrics. A lot of the loopholes that the Red Sox drove their money tank through (hellooooo, draft) have been closed. Now what.

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they all use them now. billy beane is now the only gm who has played in the show. where do you think these other guys came from?

Jerry Dipoto the GM of the LA Angels is a former player. A lot of GM's are former scouts.

He made the right picks though. Lots of teams have spent like crazy and not won.

I'd say hope he finds newer ways to exploit things. He was out in front on the stuff you mentioned

But isn't this selection bias? Oakland, TB, and many other teams using contemporary analytics have enjoyed success, but haven't other teams that rely on more traditional scouting models also enjoyed success during the same time period? This is a real question, I do not know the answer: Does St. Louis use some of the same methods as TB and Boston? What about San Francisco? NY just throws a bunch of money around, so they skew the sample size. What about Detroit? Anaheim? Texas?

Don't get me wrong, I personally endorse the incorporation of modern analytical systems into scouting processes, but I'm just wondering if it's a stretch to attribute much of recent MLB success to sabermetrics as if its the sine qua non of successful scouting.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Hawk did mention it last night.

He said he respects Brian Kenny and his knowledge of the game and that they just disagree.

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Bill James came in and targeted Ortiz, something with the RF HR preference/need.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Very few announcers/media guys get the chance to prove what they really know about a game, when they get the chance to be GM. HAwk is one of them!

And for Jerry R to can you, after 1 year of a position that he personally put you in, you had to really suck at what you did!

Even terry Bevington got 2 years!

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Harrellson couldn't get along with anybody in the organization (surprise!) and finally quit or got fired. It wasn't because of his talent evaluation.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

LOL

OK, whatever you say.

I am shocked though he didnt get along with anyone, he provides no such indication that this is an issue with him.

Of course the only time I ever saw him in person he was too busy sucking Jerry R's dick to see any other side of him. Same thing for Ed Farmer.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

He should've just said he was being awful on purpose.

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