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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 10:12 am 
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Nardi wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nardi wrote:
There will be expanded playoffs with fans. Extra TV money also. Players want their per game money. It's contractual. Owners can make it up in the playoffs.
The players are getting a good amount of money in the playoffs too. There is no guarantee fans will be in the stadiums by the playoffs. The tv deals also may want money back.

The owners aren't going to choose to start the season if they are likely to lose more money than they would by not playing at all. It sucks for the players but it's just how business works. If the players were open to revenue sharing then it is a different discussion.

Oh well. Sorry owners. MLBPA has a nice sized strike fund the can use in this situation.

Players have a contract. Abide by it or cancel. Guess what? Owners won't cancel.
That would be a pretty poor choice by the players to use up that strike fund instead of working on a deal with the owners.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 10:13 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nardi wrote:
There will be expanded playoffs with fans. Extra TV money also. Players want their per game money. It's contractual. Owners can make it up in the playoffs.
The players are getting a good amount of money in the playoffs too. There is no guarantee fans will be in the stadiums by the playoffs. The tv deals also may want money back.

The owners aren't going to choose to start the season if they are likely to lose more money than they would by not playing at all. It sucks for the players but it's just how business works. If the players were open to revenue sharing then it is a different discussion.


Owners have already stated they are losing 2 billion if players played for free. Season should be cancelled. That is easy.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 1:58 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nardi wrote:
There will be expanded playoffs with fans. Extra TV money also. Players want their per game money. It's contractual. Owners can make it up in the playoffs.
The players are getting a good amount of money in the playoffs too. There is no guarantee fans will be in the stadiums by the playoffs. The tv deals also may want money back.

The owners aren't going to choose to start the season if they are likely to lose more money than they would by not playing at all. It sucks for the players but it's just how business works. If the players were open to revenue sharing then it is a different discussion.

Oh well. Sorry owners. MLBPA has a nice sized strike fund the can use in this situation.

Players have a contract. Abide by it or cancel. Guess what? Owners won't cancel.
That would be a pretty poor choice by the players to use up that strike fund instead of working on a deal with the owners.


They already worked on a deal with the owners.

Fuck doing it again.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 2:38 pm 
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If there is no season, the TV networks will fucking revolt. Then the players won't get shit in free agency as most teams will look like the Indians, who can't afford to keep Francisco Lindor.

And no season now pretty much ensures a lockout by the owners after the 2021 season when the CBA runs out.

Baseball players only have one option besides accepting a drastically reduced payday at the top end, which is to agitate to start a competing league. And that requires Congress to loosen anti-trust exemptions.

This is where the NHL found itself years ago. MLBPA doesn't want to end up there.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 2:40 pm 
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The players are fucked. Free agency will be dead for at least a couple years.


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 3:50 pm 
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I'm finally resigned to the fact that the bastard team owners are only interested in breaking the players association. And we won't have baseball.

I sense Reinsdorf's influence all over this again. Time to pull the antitrust exemption and the sweetheart local tax and stadium deals.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 3:53 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
I'm finally resigned to the fact that the bastard team owners are only interested in breaking the players association. And we won't have baseball.

I sense Reinsdorf's influence all over this again. Time to pull the antitrust exemption and the sweetheart local tax and stadium deals.


Yep. Not letting a good crisis go to waste.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 3:53 pm 
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At this point I really don't care what happens with basketball and I'm getting to that point with baseball. Don't fuck with my NFL though.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 3:57 pm 
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Nas wrote:
At this point I really don't care what happens with baskets and I'm getting to that point with baseball. Don't fuck with my NFL though.

Revenue sharing saves us all.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 4:06 pm 
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Nas wrote:
At this point I really don't care what happens with basketball and I'm getting to that point with baseball. Don't fuck with my NFL though.


All of the truly wealthy owners aren't going to let the 2nd generation or over leveraged owners screw up the guaranteed profits even without fans in stands.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 4:29 pm 
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There will be a huge audience for baseball/sports starved fans - especially in a shortened season with no attendance allowed. The networks know this as well as the owners. Time to negotiate a new deal (for this year only) to help make up for the lost revenue.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 4:33 pm 
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Nas wrote:
At this point I really don't care what happens with basketball and I'm getting to that point with baseball. Don't fuck with my NFL though.


This. Fuck these cocksuckers.


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 4:36 pm 
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I am not sure I am following the argument that the owners are completely evil. The players can’t take a cut seems to be a proper stance. Why then do the owners have to pay them full pay for about 81 games most of them with no gate, parking or concessions? There are actual operating costs to play games in stadiums plus travel if away.

Furthermore if they argue revenue sharing it’s not just tv. They are losing shared funds that visiting teams get from tickets I believe.

So sure owners made a lot over the recent past but that is not now. Prorated player salaries is the only right way.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 4:37 pm 
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So the owners and players union agreed to a deal two months ago, and the owners backed out after agreeing?

Fuck em

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 4:42 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
I am not sure I am following the argument that the owners are completely evil. The players can’t take a cut seems to be a proper stance. Why then do the owners have to pay them full pay for about 81 games most of them with no gate, parking or concessions? There are actual operating costs to play games in stadiums plus travel if away.

Furthermore if they argue revenue sharing it’s not just tv. They are losing shared funds that visiting teams get from tickets I believe.

So sure owners made a lot over the recent past but that is not now. Prorated player salaries is the only right way.


They both can suck my dick. Owners and players. I bet the biggest kunt of them all is Kris Bryant. Fucking Beta.


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 4:47 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
So the owners and players union agreed to a deal two months ago, and the owners backed out after agreeing?

Fuck em


Yes.

They went to players and asked them to take prorated salaries based on number of games played back in March and the players agreed.

Now since there will likely be no ticket revenue, they want players to take less.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 4:57 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
So the owners and players union agreed to a deal two months ago, and the owners backed out after agreeing?

Fuck em

I think the issue was they didn't project they would be playing in empty stadiums and losing 30 percent more revenue than missed games.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 5:08 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Time to pull the antitrust exemption and the sweetheart local tax and stadium deals.

This really needs to happen.

It's pretty simple....they need to open the books. the Players association needs to be ready to embrace revenue sharing, salary caps, and salary floors. they also

I do think it's unreasonable to just expect they'll get the prorated pay deal now that there's no gate revenue, but can't believe the owners will be honest about the money pool.

A deal needs to get done.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 5:15 pm 
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BigW72 wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Time to pull the antitrust exemption and the sweetheart local tax and stadium deals.

This really needs to happen.

It's pretty simple....they need to open the books. the Players association needs to be ready to embrace revenue sharing, salary caps, and salary floors. they also

I do think it's unreasonable to just expect they'll get the prorated pay deal now that there's no gate revenue, but can't believe the owners will be honest about the money pool.

A deal needs to get done.


The players shouldn't move far off of the prorated deal they already agreed to. They aren't the owners partner. Will the owners share profits with players when things go well? Then they should eat a 20 to 30% loss or get creative and find a way to lower the hit. Owners have far more to lose by playing hardball.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 5:42 pm 
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Nas wrote:
BigW72 wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Time to pull the antitrust exemption and the sweetheart local tax and stadium deals.

This really needs to happen.

It's pretty simple....they need to open the books. the Players association needs to be ready to embrace revenue sharing, salary caps, and salary floors. they also

I do think it's unreasonable to just expect they'll get the prorated pay deal now that there's no gate revenue, but can't believe the owners will be honest about the money pool.

A deal needs to get done.


The players shouldn't move far off of the prorated deal they already agreed to. They aren't the owners partner. Will the owners share profits with players when things go well? Then they should eat a 20 to 30% loss or get creative and find a way to lower the hit. Owners have far more to lose by playing hardball.

Because when an asswipe like Frank McCourt can buy the Dodgers with no cash and sell them and collect a sweet capital gain AND keep the parking, I didn't see a single player picking up a share.

Or with the current Dodgers owners cutting themselves what they thought was a nice regional deal, I didn't see a slice allocated to the 40 man roster and minor leaguers

But I see dickhead owners like the billionaire in Oakland fucking over the minor leaguers for relative peanuts.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 5:45 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Nas wrote:
BigW72 wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Time to pull the antitrust exemption and the sweetheart local tax and stadium deals.

This really needs to happen.

It's pretty simple....they need to open the books. the Players association needs to be ready to embrace revenue sharing, salary caps, and salary floors. they also

I do think it's unreasonable to just expect they'll get the prorated pay deal now that there's no gate revenue, but can't believe the owners will be honest about the money pool.

A deal needs to get done.


The players shouldn't move far off of the prorated deal they already agreed to. They aren't the owners partner. Will the owners share profits with players when things go well? Then they should eat a 20 to 30% loss or get creative and find a way to lower the hit. Owners have far more to lose by playing hardball.

Because when an asswipe like Frank McCourt can buy the Dodgers with no cash and sell them and collect a sweet capital gain AND keep the parking, I didn't see a single player picking up a share.

Or with the current Dodgers owners cutting themselves what they thought was a nice regional deal, I didn't see a slice allocated to the 40 man roster and minor leaguers

But I see dickhead owners like the billionaire in Oakland fucking over the minor leaguers for relative peanuts.


Don't forget the shitheel in Anaheim.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 5:53 pm 
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Nas wrote:
BigW72 wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Time to pull the antitrust exemption and the sweetheart local tax and stadium deals.

This really needs to happen.

It's pretty simple....they need to open the books. the Players association needs to be ready to embrace revenue sharing, salary caps, and salary floors. they also

I do think it's unreasonable to just expect they'll get the prorated pay deal now that there's no gate revenue, but can't believe the owners will be honest about the money pool.

A deal needs to get done.


The players shouldn't move far off of the prorated deal they already agreed to. They aren't the owners partner. Will the owners share profits with players when things go well? Then they should eat a 20 to 30% loss or get creative and find a way to lower the hit. Owners have far more to lose by playing hardball.

That's why revenue sharing is needed. The players fight it though.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 5:55 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
BigW72 wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Time to pull the antitrust exemption and the sweetheart local tax and stadium deals.

This really needs to happen.

It's pretty simple....they need to open the books. the Players association needs to be ready to embrace revenue sharing, salary caps, and salary floors. they also

I do think it's unreasonable to just expect they'll get the prorated pay deal now that there's no gate revenue, but can't believe the owners will be honest about the money pool.

A deal needs to get done.


The players shouldn't move far off of the prorated deal they already agreed to. They aren't the owners partner. Will the owners share profits with players when things go well? Then they should eat a 20 to 30% loss or get creative and find a way to lower the hit. Owners have far more to lose by playing hardball.

That's why revenue sharing is needed. The players fight it though.



How can you share revenue when these MFers refuse to open their books?

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 6:04 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
I'm finally resigned to the fact that the bastard team owners are only interested in breaking the players association. And we won't have baseball.

I sense Reinsdorf's influence all over this again. Time to pull the antitrust exemption and the sweetheart local tax and stadium deals.



You might be right, but I'm gonna guess that at this stage of his life Reinsdorf isn't looking to kill any seasons with his team likely on the improve.

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Regular Reader wrote:
I'm finally resigned to the fact that the bastard team owners are only interested in breaking the players association. And we won't have baseball.

I sense Reinsdorf's influence all over this again. Time to pull the antitrust exemption and the sweetheart local tax and stadium deals.



You might be right, but I'm gonna guess that at this stage of his life Reinsdorf isn't looking to kill any seasons with his team likely on the improve.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 6:06 pm 
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The problem is though how do you get them to truly open the book? In the NHL do you think the profits from concession and alcohol, both going to WirtzCorp, are counted in their revenue numbers? Are the Ricketts going to count the income from owning 2/3 of the rooftops? The income from Marquis? They will just move as much as they can to a different ledger line and cry poor.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 6:11 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
I'm finally resigned to the fact that the bastard team owners are only interested in breaking the players association. And we won't have baseball.

I sense Reinsdorf's influence all over this again. Time to pull the antitrust exemption and the sweetheart local tax and stadium deals.



You might be right, but I'm gonna guess that at this stage of his life Reinsdorf isn't looking to kill any seasons with his team likely on the improve.


https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/w ... story.html

Column: Chicago White Sox Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf never has seen anything like the uncertainty brought on by the coronavirus pandemic
Paul Sullivan
By PAUL SULLIVAN
CHICAGO TRIBUNE |
MAY 27, 2020 | 2:40 PM


Chicago White Sox Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf said the uncertainty stemming from the coronavirus pandemic is unlike anything he has experienced in his 39 years in baseball.

“The only thing that would be reasonably close would be the baseball strikes in ‘81 and ’94,” he said in an April interview with George Washington University School of Business students for a project published Monday titled “How COVID-19 Shook the Cactus League.”

“They’re only similar in that we stopped playing. We always knew that sooner or later they’d be settled and we’d come back and play. This is totally different because we don’t know how this whole pandemic thing is going to end.

"We don’t know if or when there’s going to be a vaccine or a cure (or) when it’ll be safe to resume baseball. In my lifetime I can’t think of anything that hit suddenly like this or is as uncertain as this.”

As MLB and the players union negotiate in hopes of restarting the 2020 season, one thing that needs to be stressed is no one knows how this pandemic is going to end, or when it will be safe to allow fans into ballparks.

Team owners are looking at an economic future that looks bleak without a vaccine and want players to understand the financial ramifications of playing in empty stadiums. Players are justifiably concerned about their health and welfare, and many are wondering whether it really will be safe to return to the field this summer.

Meanwhile the MLBPA wants MLB to fairly compensate its players, who have guaranteed contracts and what they believe is an agreement to be paid prorated salaries during a shortened season.

And fans just want to see baseball, period, even if it’s only on TV.

Not surprisingly, everyone is taking sides in the dispute between MLB and the players. Some believe the billionaire owners should suck it up and pay players their prorated salaries for the half-season because they won’t go broke. Some believe the players are crazy to think they should receive the same salaries, even prorated ones, without attendance-generated revenue.

A compromise seems unlikely if both sides dig in their heels. The union is unlikely to accept the tiered-salary proposal from MLB that calls for deeper salary cuts for the higher-salaried players and reduced cuts for those making less.

“We want to play baseball. This pandemic is going to have a profound impact on all of us,” Cardinals reliever Andrew Miller told the Athletic. “Players are willing to make sacrifices and surely will to get back on the field. However, we will not sacrifice our principles or the future generations of players to do so.”

Miller, a member of the union’s executive subcommittee, said he’s confident they’ll find “common ground.” Hopefully he’s right.

No one wants to think the season will be canceled, just as no one did in 1994 when the players went on strike. But then-Commissioner Bud Selig did just that on Day 34 of the strike after a conference call with owners and management representatives.

“There are a lot of things in life you anticipate … and the fear that it’s coming,” Selig said when canceling the season on Sept. 14, 1994. “And when the day is here, there’s an incredible amount of sadness. It is very hard to articulate the poignancy of this moment.”

Selig still shoulders the blame for that decision in the eyes of many fans, though the only owners who dissented were the Orioles’ Peter Angelos and Reds’ Marge Schott. Selig’s replacement, Rob Manfred, also would be judged harshly if there is no agreement to restart this summer.

If there’s no agreement, we’ll soon be turning to the NHL playoffs in July, the NFL preseason in August and perhaps the resumption of the NBA season sometime this summer. As the ratings for Sunday’s Tigers Wood-Phil Mickelson charity golf match showed, viewers are starving for live sports.

Meanwhile, MLB owners would be dealing with the unpleasant task of refunding money to season ticket holders, sponsors and others. Both sides no doubt would point fingers at each other, but in the end it won’t matter because everyone will lose.

Reinsdorf, who also runs the Bulls, is busy planning for two franchises facing uncertain futures.

“We’re sort of focusing on unwinding a business rather than running a business,” he told the George Washington students. “We’re having to think ahead to what happens next year. The basketball season starts late October. We don’t even know if we’ll be able to have a training camp. Baseball season starts in February (2021) with spring training. So there are a lot of unknowns we’re thinking about instead of pleasant things like winning ballgames.”

The 2020 Sox were one of those “pleasant things” on Reinsdorf’s mind before the pandemic. But they should be in better position than many teams if the 2020 season isn’t played. Most of their young nucleus are signed for several years, including Yoan Moncada, Tim Anderson, Eloy Jimenez and Luis Robert. Michael Kopech won’t be a free agent until after 2024, and Dylan Cease won’t be one until after 2025.

Sure, they all would miss a year of development, but the future looks bright if the game doesn’t return until 2021.

Still, Reinsdorf is 84. When he gave general manager Rick Hahn the go-ahead to start the rebuild after the 2016 season, surely he was hoping it would start to jell by 2020, especially after spending on free agents Yasmani Grandal and Dallas Keuchel.

Reinsdorf and I have had some disagreements over the years, but I don’t know many baseball executives who love the game as much as him. And like any other Sox fan, he has been anticipating 2020 since last season ended.

“I miss the competition,” Reinsdorf, who earned his bachelor’s degree in business from George Washington in 1957 , said in the interview. “Just seeing the games and hopefully winning more than we lose. We’re very optimistic about this year, and now it’s disappointing that we’re not able to play.”

There’s still a chance to save the season — but only if common sense prevails.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 6:12 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
I'm finally resigned to the fact that the bastard team owners are only interested in breaking the players association. And we won't have baseball.

I sense Reinsdorf's influence all over this again. Time to pull the antitrust exemption and the sweetheart local tax and stadium deals.



You might be right, but I'm gonna guess that at this stage of his life Reinsdorf isn't looking to kill any seasons with his team likely on the improve.


https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/w ... story.html

Column: Chicago White Sox Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf never has seen anything like the uncertainty brought on by the coronavirus pandemic
Paul Sullivan
By PAUL SULLIVAN
CHICAGO TRIBUNE |
MAY 27, 2020 | 2:40 PM


Chicago White Sox Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf said the uncertainty stemming from the coronavirus pandemic is unlike anything he has experienced in his 39 years in baseball.

“The only thing that would be reasonably close would be the baseball strikes in ‘81 and ’94,” he said in an April interview with George Washington University School of Business students for a project published Monday titled “How COVID-19 Shook the Cactus League.”

“They’re only similar in that we stopped playing. We always knew that sooner or later they’d be settled and we’d come back and play. This is totally different because we don’t know how this whole pandemic thing is going to end.

"We don’t know if or when there’s going to be a vaccine or a cure (or) when it’ll be safe to resume baseball. In my lifetime I can’t think of anything that hit suddenly like this or is as uncertain as this.”

As MLB and the players union negotiate in hopes of restarting the 2020 season, one thing that needs to be stressed is no one knows how this pandemic is going to end, or when it will be safe to allow fans into ballparks.

Team owners are looking at an economic future that looks bleak without a vaccine and want players to understand the financial ramifications of playing in empty stadiums. Players are justifiably concerned about their health and welfare, and many are wondering whether it really will be safe to return to the field this summer.

Meanwhile the MLBPA wants MLB to fairly compensate its players, who have guaranteed contracts and what they believe is an agreement to be paid prorated salaries during a shortened season.

And fans just want to see baseball, period, even if it’s only on TV.

Not surprisingly, everyone is taking sides in the dispute between MLB and the players. Some believe the billionaire owners should suck it up and pay players their prorated salaries for the half-season because they won’t go broke. Some believe the players are crazy to think they should receive the same salaries, even prorated ones, without attendance-generated revenue.

A compromise seems unlikely if both sides dig in their heels. The union is unlikely to accept the tiered-salary proposal from MLB that calls for deeper salary cuts for the higher-salaried players and reduced cuts for those making less.

“We want to play baseball. This pandemic is going to have a profound impact on all of us,” Cardinals reliever Andrew Miller told the Athletic. “Players are willing to make sacrifices and surely will to get back on the field. However, we will not sacrifice our principles or the future generations of players to do so.”

Miller, a member of the union’s executive subcommittee, said he’s confident they’ll find “common ground.” Hopefully he’s right.

No one wants to think the season will be canceled, just as no one did in 1994 when the players went on strike. But then-Commissioner Bud Selig did just that on Day 34 of the strike after a conference call with owners and management representatives.

“There are a lot of things in life you anticipate … and the fear that it’s coming,” Selig said when canceling the season on Sept. 14, 1994. “And when the day is here, there’s an incredible amount of sadness. It is very hard to articulate the poignancy of this moment.”

Selig still shoulders the blame for that decision in the eyes of many fans, though the only owners who dissented were the Orioles’ Peter Angelos and Reds’ Marge Schott. Selig’s replacement, Rob Manfred, also would be judged harshly if there is no agreement to restart this summer.

If there’s no agreement, we’ll soon be turning to the NHL playoffs in July, the NFL preseason in August and perhaps the resumption of the NBA season sometime this summer. As the ratings for Sunday’s Tigers Wood-Phil Mickelson charity golf match showed, viewers are starving for live sports.

Meanwhile, MLB owners would be dealing with the unpleasant task of refunding money to season ticket holders, sponsors and others. Both sides no doubt would point fingers at each other, but in the end it won’t matter because everyone will lose.

Reinsdorf, who also runs the Bulls, is busy planning for two franchises facing uncertain futures.

“We’re sort of focusing on unwinding a business rather than running a business,” he told the George Washington students. “We’re having to think ahead to what happens next year. The basketball season starts late October. We don’t even know if we’ll be able to have a training camp. Baseball season starts in February (2021) with spring training. So there are a lot of unknowns we’re thinking about instead of pleasant things like winning ballgames.”

The 2020 Sox were one of those “pleasant things” on Reinsdorf’s mind before the pandemic. But they should be in better position than many teams if the 2020 season isn’t played. Most of their young nucleus are signed for several years, including Yoan Moncada, Tim Anderson, Eloy Jimenez and Luis Robert. Michael Kopech won’t be a free agent until after 2024, and Dylan Cease won’t be one until after 2025.

Sure, they all would miss a year of development, but the future looks bright if the game doesn’t return until 2021.

Still, Reinsdorf is 84. When he gave general manager Rick Hahn the go-ahead to start the rebuild after the 2016 season, surely he was hoping it would start to jell by 2020, especially after spending on free agents Yasmani Grandal and Dallas Keuchel.

Reinsdorf and I have had some disagreements over the years, but I don’t know many baseball executives who love the game as much as him. And like any other Sox fan, he has been anticipating 2020 since last season ended.

“I miss the competition,” Reinsdorf, who earned his bachelor’s degree in business from George Washington in 1957 , said in the interview. “Just seeing the games and hopefully winning more than we lose. We’re very optimistic about this year, and now it’s disappointing that we’re not able to play.”

There’s still a chance to save the season — but only if common sense prevails.

GOAT.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 10:41 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 10:43 pm 
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