JORR: who are some of the highly qualified people whom you feel Theo unfairly leapfrogged? Hadn't the Red Sox been run by crusty baseball lifers for years prior to Theo's hiring? Maybe in that context, they felt they had to go off the board.

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I agree it's a wasteful process. But I think championships are far too weighted in these rankings. Obviously that's the main goal, but to use an analogy from a sport I know a bit better, would anyone want Mike Shanahan as their coach instead of Jim Harbaugh? Obviously not.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You don't replace an entire organization without being arrogant.



I'm not complaining about anything. You asked the question and I told you what I thought. I'm sorry you find the answer "boring".

Here's all I'm saying about Theo Epstein in Chicago. If he doesn't win a World Series, he is a failure. There can be no spin about how "he built a good organization." Nobody gives a fuck. The Cubs were a fine organization with many winning seasons under Jim Hendry. So I don't want to hear anyone using the SABRmetric small sample playoff crapshoot excuse for Theo Epstein when it wasn't good enough for Jim Hendry.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I wouldn't say he "unfairly" leapfrogged anyone. Nobody turns down an opportunity to do what he wants to do. My point is simply that if Crane Kenney were given the chance to make baseball decisions, maybe he'd do okay too. He has as much baseball experience as Epstein. He's probably a smart guy having risen to the position he did. But I'm sure most people would laugh at the idea.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Saying that replacing an organization that hasn't won in 104 years is arrogant, is a really really stupid comment. I'd love actual evidence that shows he is arrogant. He changed the organization, because it doesn't align with his beliefs. He was specifically brought in to change things! THE OWNER WANTED EVERYTHING TO CHANGE! THAT'S WHY HE IS HERE! If the goal was to continue doing what Hendry was doing, he would still be here! What a wild statement by you.

And if your premise is that if he doesn't win a World Series, he is a failure, then welcome to Planet Obvious. You are now the mayor.

Seriously? Crane Kenney? Crane Kenney was a Tribune lawyer who was charged with babysitting the baseball team while they sold it. He didn't rise through the ranks of the Cubs' baseball operations, and he had no significant say in baseball operations. Theo ran the Red Sox for the better part of a decade. Honestly now.

As for organizational housecleaning, it had to be done. The Cubs were an organizational disaster for years, so I agree that new baseball people had to be installed. My skepticism arises from the fact that the best minds in baseball all just so happened to be employed by the Boston Red Sox. You can't do a wholesale redux of the Red Sox. Baseball has changed. A truly great executive would stay out in front of things and not just dig back to the past, and relying on draft loopholes and steroids is the past.

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I just mentioned Crane Kenney as an example since he is clearly reviled. Before Epstein was named GM of the Red Sox he was a glorified intern in San Diego. He's part of the "Hey, we need a young guy who knows how to turn on a computer!" movement. That's all.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Really? Dallas Green came in the same way and he was arrogant too.

And it isn't obvious. I guarantee you that when he is fired without winning a World Series there will be all kinds of people spinning how he remade the organization and it's better than ever. From a fan's perspective it will just be more of the same.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Your premise (changing a bad organization to the way you want it = arrogance), is absolutely bug nutty bat shit crazy. I truly don't even know how to respond. We are in Cubbiegirlshamus territory right now. I'm done.

Not as stupid as believing that Theo Epstein is the smartest, most capable guy to work in the front office in 104 years.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

No, it is.


Riddle me this, if the Bears were to sign Dom Capers as the D Coord, would it be arrogant for him to install a 3-4 defense?

I don't know much about Dom Capers or his defense, but less specifically, there will always be changes made when new people come in- whether it's in sports or any other business. I just get the impression from Epstein and his playmates that they truly believe they have a method for long term success that others lack, in spite of the fact that they have left two franchises on shaky ground and purposely put their present one in such a condition. Maybe I'm wrong about that. I'll admit that something about their frat boy manner rubs me the wrong way. Maybe that's my own feeling more than any reality. I don't know.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

JORR, probably just easier to say you don't like the guy for whatever reason.

Who was a better Cubs GM?

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I don't like or dislike him. I just think he's come to believe in his own bullshit. That isn't uncommon. I see the same kind of stuff written here all the time about Ken Williams and I don't necessarily disagree with that. I don't think it's controversial or that Theo shouldn't be criticized because, well, because he's Theo.

One thing is a fact. Never before in the free agent era has a large market team with the financial wherewithal of the Cubs stripped itself down to such an unwatchable level to the point where many diehards at least claim they only tune in to watch at-bats of specific players.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Right now? All of them.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

That's just it. The Cubs have no financial wherewithal. They've been flat broke since changing to Reinsdorf-approved ownership.

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Do you think that's true? It may be possible if Big Joe thinks his kid fucked up and tightened up the purse strings.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I think they overextended themselves with the purchase price and are losing big on broadcast revenue because the TV/radio deals were just about moving Tribune money around.

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Why?

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Theo probably isn't the least successful GM of the Cubs ever yet, but he hasn't done anything yet. You can't rate him better or worse than Jim Hendry yet.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Was anyone expecting 1st year results?
I'd say that the jury's kinda out still here. I mean, this thing was a serious mess.
"There's still a lot of work to do!"

I think if Obama can squeak out another 4 years given the "headwinds" he's faced because of Bush, then we can give Theo a pass in only one year given the Hendry mess he inherited. Lols.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

You're reiterating my point. We don't know shit about Theo yet. He's not a good GM or bad GM in terms of the Cubs. We know what he did with the Red Sox.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

So we agree that jorr is a boob?

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

No, I think we agree that you're mistaken as usual. So why don't you go back to beefing with Panther in yet another sad, desperate attempt to stay relevant in a forum that has made it eminently clear it has no further use for you as a "board elder".

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Instead of just being a dick, why not answer the question...
Why is every cubs gm of the last century better than theo? Why not give him a chance instead of writing him off in the first year of a multi year plan?

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Who is being a dick? You've gotten into two "conversations' today and both of them began with you being a douchebag. You need to look in a fucking mirror.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I wasn't a dick at all to panther. In fact, I've been considerably more polite than he.

I'm guessing you're dodging the question because you can't back up what you say. I'm cool with that. Its your thing.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

That's why you have me. I'm the arbitrator. Theo either gets an F or an incomplet right now. If the Cubs dont win 70+ games next year he has or show very signicsnt improvements next year he has an F to a C- grade after two years, depending on the roster. Is that fair?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul