I wish that mothefucker wouldve taken them when he was with the fucking Pirates so I didnt have to suffer through 3 consecutive years of playoff heartache primarily because he couldnt hit jack shit.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Why? Rose likely lost games on purpose. I don't think he suddenly discovered betting on baseball after he quit playing either.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

What was the explanation for the sudden spike in the HR total of Roger Maris in 1961? I'm not making any accusations, just asking a question.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... ro01.shtml

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I am ok with the good season argument JORR brought up. But with some guys, they showed power when none previously existed. With others who had power, they jumped and then remained elevated beyond historical levels. And then the third group showed a terrific season and then was caught using roids. I listed two of those folks from 2012 in a prior post.

I get that a guy like Freddie Sanchez wins the batting title and is never heard from again. It is the three scenarios mentioned here that concern me. I don't buy the baseball is loaded argument.......

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Once a cheater always a cheater. No to all these fuck sticks.

I think expansion explains that one.

Norm Cash would probably be a better parallel for the steroid guys. He's tainted for corking his bat but his numbers are more likely due to a great season vs. expansion pitching rather than the corked bat that was largely incidental.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I'm not sold on Rose intentionally throwing games (and short of Rose making a position player the starting pitcher, I think it would be difficult for a manager to tank a game). However, in his attempts to win individual games he may have bet on, I can certainly see a negative impact on the team's long-term performance due to burning out certain players.

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That's speculation. I wouldn't exclude one of the best baseball players of all time from the HOF. It's kinda that simple, from my perspective. I understand the whole transgressions against the game argument, I just don't really agree with it.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Ban them all.

Sosa may not even get 5% of the vote and therefore would get dumped from the ballot.

I read somewhere all the Chicago writers didn't vote for him.

But I think it's reasonable speculation. First he was adamant that he never bet with bookmakers at all. That was a lie. Then he was adamant that he never bet on baseball at all. That was a lie. Then he was adamant that he never bet on games his team was involved in. That was a lie. Then he was adamant that he only bet his teams to win. You see where this is going, right?

And I'm not saying a manager can flat out lose a game for his team, but he sure can handicap them. And even if he only did bet his team to win it undoubtedly affected the way he managed the games which is going to have an effect in the following games.

I just see that as far more egregious than doing whatever you can to perform at a higher level.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Bonds is the only juicer I would vote in, he could have hit 100 if he got pitched to even when he was an old man...maybe 150 in his prime.

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The voting results will be revealed January 9th for the Baseball Hall of Fame, and I can bet there will be ESPN talking heads who have ballots explaining to Joe Fan why he voted for Barry Bonds, Sam Sosa & Roger Clemens for Cooperstown.

That being said, I also wonder if Curt Schilling, currently an MLB/ESPN analyst, eventually gets inducted into the Hall...I still think he ultimately gets in at some point, probably not on the first ballot.

I don't understand the let him in/keep him out mentality when referring to these guys. If Bonds is the all-time HR leader, then he absolutely should go in the HoF. Sosa had amazing numbers, too. He deserves it. I like the idea of having a plaque or some sort of area to "disclose" all the controversies associated with this generation of baseball.

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-- source

Yeah, I don't think you can punish the players without also punishing the fans and the game itself. It was what it was. It can't be erased. It would be silly and ridiculous to have a Hall of Fame with Paul Konerko and not Barry Bonds. And that's the kind of shit that will happen as we get into it. The writers are going to elect guys and there will be guys that don't belong but that got put in because the deserving guys were ignored based on some uncertain morality. And who is to say the lesser guys weren't doing the same things?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Bonds yes, but not for several years.

Clemens, McGwire, and Sosa; No, never.

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They can all go in after they die of cancer.

Why Bonds?

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2018
#ExtendLafleur
10 More Wins

So Bonds, but not until 2017? 2018? Are his numbers somehow going to get better over this span? I hate that bullshit when voters do it. The pompous pricks (Saw them open up for the Foo Fighters) who won't vote someone in the first year of eligibility, but magically the player is worthy in year two.

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-- source

I think there are more deserving guys worthy of induction into Cooperstown that are still waiting for the required 75% from the BBWAA. Jack Morris will get the call before Barry, Roger & Sammy.

If Bud Selig was awake,he knew that these players were coming up on the ballot. He should have made a decision BEFORE the names hit the ballot to either exclude them or place a * after the names stating players were suspected of steroid abuse.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

The whole steroids thing in baseball is beyond stupid. You never hear these types of discussions come up in NFL HoF debates.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

MLB's lifeblood is stats. When it gets f'ed with,fans get angry.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

That's one of the reasons why I want Bud Selig out as Commissioner. He was asleep at the wheel and could've done something about steroids in baseball a long time ago...

I just heard that smug j.e.w. John Feinstein say that the HOF has a character clause. Really? Ty fucking Cobb is in. He's an O.G. He went into the stands and pummled a cripple. He was a proud racist. Character claus? Lol. Put them all in. They juiced, but they still had to hit and pitch the ball. Sosa hit 60 3 times. That's fucking incredible. Could he have done it without roids? No. How many juiced pitchers did he face? Bonds saw one good pitch a game, and usually hit it in the drink. I hate the fucker, but I don't deny his talent. Rose is the all time hits leader. He belongs in. By now he probably only wants in to get that extra money that adding H.O.F to his autograph brings.

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"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." ~ H.L. Mencken

All 3 should be 1st ballot guys, every era has HoFers who cheated in different ways, this one's no different, just more publicized. Still no to Rose though.

Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame on stats alone. His problem? He not only bet on baseball, but refused to come clean for the longest time. Unless Major League Baseball's next Commissioner looks the other way and lifts the lifetime ban dating back to when Bart Giamatti was in charge, Rose isn't getting into Cooperstown. That's the bottom line.

Right. There is a certain "purity of the game" sort of romanticism that exists in baseball and doesn't exist in the other major sports.

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Kid Cairo's Boers & Bernstein YouTube Channel

Kid Cairo: 2013 March Madness Tournament Winner!

"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

It will (or should) when a certain QB who was addicted to painkillers ends up on the ballot.

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But would you agree that "romanticism" is pure bullshit? It's just another sport.


No, it won't, and it shouldn't. Just like it didn't, and shouldn't have, with Walter Payton.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul