You could be right. I didn't look it up. I just assumed that they couldn't overcome the giant swing the Sox gave them. That's a good reason to believe the West is better.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I've noticed you prefer to debate off of your gut feeling.

Not really. I wasn't debating. I made a bad assumption. I'm not arguing about it.

We all have access to Google.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

This all just seems so simple to me. If you win the triple crown and your team is in contention for the playoffs you are the MVP.

I get Trout is great and has wonderful numbers and all that, but just not enough this year.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

You are an ignorant slut

_________________
Team Cutler.

If you were a Tigers fan and you could swap Cabrera out for Trout right now before the playoffs begin, would you do it?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

True, but what does that have to do with this?

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

For just this playoffs? No.

If for the remainder of their careers, then obviously yes.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

And don't even think it's obvious then. Maybe less so. Cabrera is a great player, a likely Hall of Famer. Trout is a guy who has had one year. But yeah, I was talking about right now, this season. If a guy is more valuable, shouldn't be a no-brainer that you would take him? I can't see how you could possibly take Trout over Cabrera.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I disagree with your premise, but agree with your conclusion.

_________________
1923-1927-1928-1932-1936-1937-1938-1939
1941-1943-1947-1949-1950-1951-1952-1953
1956-1958-1961-1962-1977-1978-1996-1998
1999-2000-2009
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XXI - XXV - XLII - XLVI

I just like that this debate has gotten Boers to disagree with Bernsie. Boers usually wins in these rare times.

Cabrera will and should win MVP.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I'm not listening, but I assume bernstein is beating him over the head with WAR.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

For you Cabrera backers, if he was a DH, would you still vote for him to get the MVP?


Bottom line for me is, Trout is an all around better player. Maybe not in 3 categories, but in all of them that matter to winning a baseball game, he had a better year. Really hard to dispute that. Hell, even Trout's offensive WAR is higher than Miggy's.


I would rather have Trout right now, if I were the Tigers. His defense, his baserunning, steals, etc make him more valuable all around.

Probably more so. He'd be even more valuable without his shitty defense.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

So you discredit for bad defense, but don't credit for good defense?

I was half listening. I think it came up but it wasnt the crux of the debate. The only part I heard clearly was Bernsie saying RBIs don't matter when talking about an individual players value, and Boers using his own logic against him to say that runs scored doesn't really matter then. Bernsie half agreed and they moved on.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I think defense on the outfield corners is rather inconsequential. If he's in center everyday, it means a little more. I was really just making a joke though. Cabrera is a superior hitter.

If you're going to have DH as a position, I don't think it's fair to deduct points because that's the position a guy plays. His 4.5 at-bats a game or whatever the number is carry far more weight than the 3 balls that come to a guy at third, most of which everyone handles anyway.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

OK. Somebody should never get "plus points" for being the DH. Yes Cabrerea is a butcher, but at least he's "good" enough to be out there. Not his fault the manager put him in the field. DH's should automatically get the worst possible defensive grade, like -25 runs.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

In fact, runs scored and runs driven in matter more than anything else. It's a conversation like that that shows just how advanced stats have caused some morons to lose sight of the actual game.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Sabr guys will tell you this is wrong and I agree with them. A guy with a pus arm will get run on all day. A butcher will let balls get past and its off to the races.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

What Dan has said in the past about runs and RBI is that they're out of the hitter's control. They're dependant on other players.

_________________

I'm pretty sure that's what Boers was getting at, or trying to at least. He brought up how it really is inconsequential how many people got in scoring position in front of Cabrera. Cabrera got them in. How many times in September did White Sox fans want a "lucky" guy like Cabrera to drive in runs with RISP?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Boy I don't know what is more riveting around here today....Triple Crown vs WAR in this thread or the Mitt vs Obama thread. I miss the shitty Cubs already. When does basketball start.

_________________

You just don't get it, and you obviously don't care to because you are too smart for this. It's not that they do or don't matter. It's how they matter in the conversation about a single, particular player's value.

Runs, like RBI, are dependent on teammates. IE, it's not as indicative of a single player's value, as stats that are more directly correlated with that specific player. Like HRs, SBs, fielding, AVG, slugging, etc.

There you go using facts again. Didn't you read JORR's "pretty sure" response? That trumps all the "facts" of which you speak.

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-- source

What? I said Miguel was better in 3 categories. Trout was better when you consider all categories. How hard is that to understand?


Shut up.

WTF are you talking about? Did you bump your head?

Boat ..........................................................................IMU

_________________
Team Cutler.

WHAT!?!?!?!

The playoff thing is a really terrible argument to make for Cabrera.

_________________
Team Cutler.