It is currently Sun Apr 06, 2025 8:00 pm

View unanswered posts | View active topics


Board index » CHICAGO AND NATIONAL TEAMS » MLB

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]



Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 23 of 41
  [ 1229 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26 ... 41  Next
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
Nardi
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:19 pm
Posts: 33662
pizza_Place: What??
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
BigW72 wrote:
You address playoffs and DH at the next CBA. The owners were absolute morons through all of this. The players should have made this as simple as possible and said, "impose a season schedule starting july 4 with 3 weeks of spring training and we'll be there. Save your other changes for the next CBA".
This would have happened if the players had been willing to sign an agreement saying they won't file a grievance.



If you're so sure they won't win the grievance why worry about that?

Owners counted on the players discussing salaries. The kept trying and trying. Now they have a grievance on their hands. Players will hand the board their collective bargaining agreement, the March agreement, the owners proposals and minutes of negotiations and ask "Did we get fucked out of at least 3 weeks of wages"?

The answer is going to be yes.
Top
 Profile  
 
Nas
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:09 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 81466
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
If 60 games was in good faith then 65 shouldn't have been too much of an ask. The players will essentially get 60 games and their prorated salary now. They're giving up nothing additional for that.
They are giving up more playoff money, forgiveness on part of the salary advance they already got, and things about qualifying offers.


IF the players were really losing we would be talking about that. Instead we're having a discussion about how they were unfair to the owners. I can't recall that happening in my life.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!
Top
 Profile  
 
Brick
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 94254
Location: To the left of my post
Nardi wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
BigW72 wrote:
You address playoffs and DH at the next CBA. The owners were absolute morons through all of this. The players should have made this as simple as possible and said, "impose a season schedule starting july 4 with 3 weeks of spring training and we'll be there. Save your other changes for the next CBA".
This would have happened if the players had been willing to sign an agreement saying they won't file a grievance.



If you're so sure they won't win the grievance why worry about that?

Owners counted on the players discussing salaries. The kept trying and trying. Now they have a grievance on their hands. Players will hand the board their collective bargaining agreement, the March agreement, the owners proposals and minutes of negotiations and ask "Did we get fucked out of at least 3 weeks of wages"?

The answer is going to be yes.
Then MLB will print out a calendar, and show that the players were considering an offer that was negotiated WITH the union head on June 21st, the players rejected it on June 22nd, and MLB imposed the season based on their timeline of the last offer immediately.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!
Top
 Profile  
 
Brick
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 94254
Location: To the left of my post
Nas wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
If 60 games was in good faith then 65 shouldn't have been too much of an ask. The players will essentially get 60 games and their prorated salary now. They're giving up nothing additional for that.
They are giving up more playoff money, forgiveness on part of the salary advance they already got, and things about qualifying offers.


IF the players were really losing we would be talking about that. Instead we're having a discussion about how they were unfair to the owners. I can't recall that happening in my life.
I think it's only unfair if they file a grievance about it. They had a chance to take what was a good offer.

It's also interesting that the owners are rich enough that they should just accept losing huge money on every game, and then they add 10-12 more games to that and they are still the only ones at fault for this.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!
Top
 Profile  
 
Nardi
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:19 pm
Posts: 33662
pizza_Place: What??
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
BigW72 wrote:
You address playoffs and DH at the next CBA. The owners were absolute morons through all of this. The players should have made this as simple as possible and said, "impose a season schedule starting july 4 with 3 weeks of spring training and we'll be there. Save your other changes for the next CBA".
This would have happened if the players had been willing to sign an agreement saying they won't file a grievance.



If you're so sure they won't win the grievance why worry about that?

Owners counted on the players discussing salaries. The kept trying and trying. Now they have a grievance on their hands. Players will hand the board their collective bargaining agreement, the March agreement, the owners proposals and minutes of negotiations and ask "Did we get fucked out of at least 3 weeks of wages"?

The answer is going to be yes.
Then MLB will print out a calendar, and show that the players were considering an offer that was negotiated WITH the union head on June 21st, the players rejected it on June 22nd, and MLB imposed the season based on their timeline of the last offer immediately.

Of course. Won't change the bad faith argument. It also proves the good faith the players had by after all the shennagins by the owners, they put up their "fucking them out of 3 weeks wages" proposal up to a vote.
Top
 Profile  
 
Nas
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:21 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 81466
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
If 60 games was in good faith then 65 shouldn't have been too much of an ask. The players will essentially get 60 games and their prorated salary now. They're giving up nothing additional for that.
They are giving up more playoff money, forgiveness on part of the salary advance they already got, and things about qualifying offers.


IF the players were really losing we would be talking about that. Instead we're having a discussion about how they were unfair to the owners. I can't recall that happening in my life.
I think it's only unfair if they file a grievance about it. They had a chance to take what was a good offer.

It's also interesting that the owners are rich enough that they should just accept losing huge money on every game, and then they add 10-12 more games to that and they are still the only ones at fault for this.


Why? If the players are wrong then they will lose.

Small business owners everywhere are taking a beating. I'm not going to shed tears for billionaires with multi billion dollar assets.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!
Top
 Profile  
 
Brick
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 94254
Location: To the left of my post
Nardi wrote:
Of course. Won't change the bad faith argument. It also proves the good faith the players had by after all the shennagins by the owners, they put up their "fucking them out of 3 weeks wages" proposal up to a vote.
That just makes no sense. The last proposal was a good proposal. I haven't seen anyone argue it wasn't good for both sides. You can't just keep on typing "bad faith" and make it true.

60 games, on the timeline they have, ends the season in the first week of October. The fact that they were trading proposals for 3 weeks can't be held against either side.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!
Top
 Profile  
 
Brick
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 94254
Location: To the left of my post
Nas wrote:
Why? If the players are wrong then they will lose.
It would have been better for everyone to come to an agreement. To reject a good deal so you can file a grievance is wrong. It's not my money they lost out on though.

Nas wrote:
Small business owners everywhere are taking a beating. I'm not going to shed tears for billionaires with multi billion dollar assets.
Are you shedding a tear for all the MLB millionaires?

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!
Top
 Profile  
 
Nardi
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:19 pm
Posts: 33662
pizza_Place: What??
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Of course. Won't change the bad faith argument. It also proves the good faith the players had by after all the shennagins by the owners, they put up their "fucking them out of 3 weeks wages" proposal up to a vote.
That just makes no sense. The last proposal was a good proposal. I haven't seen anyone argue it wasn't good for both sides. You can't just keep on typing "bad faith" and make it true.

60 games, on the timeline they have, ends the season in the first week of October. The fact that they were trading proposals for 3 weeks can't be held against either side.

Their first two proposals were a joke meant specifically to run out the clock. In those 2 jokes of proposals, they attempted to re negotiate a CBA. The first time, you take it with a grain of salt. The second time you file a grievance.

A pretty solid grievance, IMO.
Top
 Profile  
 
Nas
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:31 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 81466
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
Why? If the players are wrong then they will lose.
It would have been better for everyone to come to an agreement. To reject a good deal so you can file a grievance is wrong. It's not my money they lost out on though.

Nas wrote:
Small business owners everywhere are taking a beating. I'm not going to shed tears for billionaires with multi billion dollar assets.
Are you shedding a tear for all the MLB millionaires?


The players disagree. If they lose then the owners win twice since the players turned down a deal that was allegedly favorable to them.

The percentage of players who are millionaires is very small. I'll side with players in nearly every dispute.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!
Top
 Profile  
 
Brick
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 94254
Location: To the left of my post
Nardi wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Of course. Won't change the bad faith argument. It also proves the good faith the players had by after all the shennagins by the owners, they put up their "fucking them out of 3 weeks wages" proposal up to a vote.
That just makes no sense. The last proposal was a good proposal. I haven't seen anyone argue it wasn't good for both sides. You can't just keep on typing "bad faith" and make it true.

60 games, on the timeline they have, ends the season in the first week of October. The fact that they were trading proposals for 3 weeks can't be held against either side.

Their first two proposals were a joke meant specifically to run out the clock. In those 2 jokes of proposals, they attempted to re negotiate a CBA. The first time, you take it with a grain of salt. The second time you file a grievance.

A pretty solid grievance, IMO.

As were the players proposals.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!
Top
 Profile  
 
Hawg Ass
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:00 pm
Posts: 31006
What happened to #WhereandWhen?

_________________
2018
#ExtendLafleur
10 More Wins
Top
 Profile  
 
Nardi
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:19 pm
Posts: 33662
pizza_Place: What??
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Of course. Won't change the bad faith argument. It also proves the good faith the players had by after all the shennagins by the owners, they put up their "fucking them out of 3 weeks wages" proposal up to a vote.
That just makes no sense. The last proposal was a good proposal. I haven't seen anyone argue it wasn't good for both sides. You can't just keep on typing "bad faith" and make it true.

60 games, on the timeline they have, ends the season in the first week of October. The fact that they were trading proposals for 3 weeks can't be held against either side.

Their first two proposals were a joke meant specifically to run out the clock. In those 2 jokes of proposals, they attempted to re negotiate a CBA. The first time, you take it with a grain of salt. The second time you file a grievance.

A pretty solid grievance, IMO.

As were the players proposals.

Did they attempt to raise their wages 50%?


Last edited by Nardi on Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
Brick
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 94254
Location: To the left of my post
Nas wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
Why? If the players are wrong then they will lose.
It would have been better for everyone to come to an agreement. To reject a good deal so you can file a grievance is wrong. It's not my money they lost out on though.

Nas wrote:
Small business owners everywhere are taking a beating. I'm not going to shed tears for billionaires with multi billion dollar assets.
Are you shedding a tear for all the MLB millionaires?


The players disagree. If they lose then the owners win twice since the players turned down a deal that was allegedly favorable to them.

The percentage of players who are millionaires is very small. I'll side with players in nearly every dispute.

Most of the players should be millionaires. The Cubs had 21 players make over a million last year alone.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!
Top
 Profile  
 
HawaiiYou
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:22 pm
Posts: 24674
pizza_Place: It's gone
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
Why? If the players are wrong then they will lose.
It would have been better for everyone to come to an agreement. To reject a good deal so you can file a grievance is wrong. It's not my money they lost out on though.

Nas wrote:
Small business owners everywhere are taking a beating. I'm not going to shed tears for billionaires with multi billion dollar assets.
Are you shedding a tear for all the MLB millionaires?


The players disagree. If they lose then the owners win twice since the players turned down a deal that was allegedly favorable to them.

The percentage of players who are millionaires is very small. I'll side with players in nearly every dispute.

Most of the players should be millionaires. The Cubs had 21 players make over a million last year alone.


Its one thing to be a millionaire and it's another thing to know how to spend that money. Some of these guys want to live the life and spend extravagantly thinking the flow of millions will never stop. I remember a few months ago Tommy Pham who made $4/5million in his 5 year career was complaining about not getting paid hurting him.
Top
 Profile  
 
Nas
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:29 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 81466
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
HawaiiYou wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
Why? If the players are wrong then they will lose.
It would have been better for everyone to come to an agreement. To reject a good deal so you can file a grievance is wrong. It's not my money they lost out on though.

Nas wrote:
Small business owners everywhere are taking a beating. I'm not going to shed tears for billionaires with multi billion dollar assets.
Are you shedding a tear for all the MLB millionaires?


The players disagree. If they lose then the owners win twice since the players turned down a deal that was allegedly favorable to them.

The percentage of players who are millionaires is very small. I'll side with players in nearly every dispute.

Most of the players should be millionaires. The Cubs had 21 players make over a million last year alone.


Its one thing to be a millionaire and it's another thing to know how to spend that money. Some of these guys want to live the life and spend extravagantly thinking the flow of millions will never stop. I remember a few months ago Tommy Pham who made $4/5million in his 5 year career was complaining about not getting paid hurting him.


Your lifestyle and expenses adjust based on your salary. Athletes and celebrities aren't the only people guilty of this.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!
Top
 Profile  
 
IMU
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:05 am
Posts: 25181
Location: Cultural Mecca
pizza_Place: Pequod's / Barnaby's
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
IMU wrote:
Players have asked for revenue sharing in past negotiations. Clearly players aren't averse to sharing the upside...they seemingly do not want to share the downside.


That's exactly backward. The owners have never shared revenue in good times and now they want the players to share the downside.

Both sentences are extremely true. Everyone is a bad guy.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.
Top
 Profile  
 
Frank Coztansa
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:45 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 102681
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
July 24.

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's more fun to be a victim
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.
Top
 Profile  
 
Nas
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:47 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 81466
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
Frank Coztansa wrote:
July 24.


Board outing!

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!
Top
 Profile  
 
pittmike
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 41196
Location: Everywhere
pizza_Place: giordanos
Nas wrote:
Your lifestyle and expenses adjust based on your salary. Athletes and celebrities aren't the only people guilty of this.


This is one of the truest and least realized things around. Look back 10 years and wonder how the hell did I live on that?

_________________
Elections have consequences.
Top
 Profile  
 
HawaiiYou
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:22 pm
Posts: 24674
pizza_Place: It's gone
Interesting that since they announced a season nobody outside of baseball diehards gives a shit.


not a big deal on espn or any media sports or non sports.
Top
 Profile  
 
blackhawksfan
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2014 8:50 pm
Posts: 6373
pizza_Place: PizzaHut
What are the odds that the season gets cancelled midway through? What is the plan if players get infected?
Top
 Profile  
 
Big Chicagoan
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:02 pm
Posts: 11737
pizza_Place: Angelo's Pizza in Downers Grove
blackhawksfan wrote:
What are the odds that the season gets cancelled midway through? What is the plan if players get infected?


Cross him off, then.


Top
 Profile  
 
good dolphin
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm
Posts: 83322
I caught the very tail end of a Mully/Haugh interview with some guy who has a podcast. The guy said something about needing a 25 person pitching staff and they were taking it as gospel. You could combine multiple teams in this league and still not have 25 legitimate MLB pitchers with which to work. Most teams do not even have confidence in the 12-13 they uniform each game during a regular season.

This is one of the problems with podcasts and internet reporting, anyone with the will can have an outlet that gives some kind of imprimatur of expertise. Meanwhile, they are really no different than you or I spinning our tales of bull.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.
Top
 Profile  
 
Hawg Ass
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:00 pm
Posts: 31006
The Brewers used 30 last year during the regular season.

_________________
2018
#ExtendLafleur
10 More Wins
Top
 Profile  
 
Hussra
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:45 am
Posts: 16843
pizza_Place: Salerno's
They banned spitting in baseball? That's not baseball

Pitcher has a perfect game going through 9 innings and comes back out for the 10th in a 0-0 game; opposing team gets to put their fastest guy on 2nd to start. Lead off hitter flies out deep to right, runner moves over. Next guy up grounds out to deep short or another deep fly ball, runner scores. If it's the top of the 10th, pitcher gets the next guy out. His team doesn't score in the bottom of the 10th. Game over, perfect game still?
Top
 Profile  
 
RFDC
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 4:11 pm
Posts: 57858
I saw a Hahn quote somewhere that really puts things into perspective with such a short season. You are going to win 20. You are going to lose 20. It will come down to what you do with the other 20. That is crazy to think a game such as baseball is going to come down to a 20 game sprint.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Frank Coztansa wrote:
I have MANY years of experience in trying to appreciate steaming piles of dogshit.
Top
 Profile  
 
Nardi
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:19 pm
Posts: 33662
pizza_Place: What??
Hussra wrote:
They banned spitting in baseball? That's not baseball

Pitcher has a perfect game going through 9 innings and comes back out for the 10th in a 0-0 game; opposing team gets to put their fastest guy on 2nd to start. Lead off hitter flies out deep to right, runner moves over. Next guy up grounds out to deep short or another deep fly ball, runner scores. If it's the top of the 10th, pitcher gets the next guy out. His team doesn't score in the bottom of the 10th. Game over, perfect game still?

No.
Top
 Profile  
 
Chet Coppock's Fur Coat
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:46 pm
Posts: 10300
pizza_Place: Q's Hillside
Nardi wrote:
Hussra wrote:
They banned spitting in baseball? That's not baseball

Pitcher has a perfect game going through 9 innings and comes back out for the 10th in a 0-0 game; opposing team gets to put their fastest guy on 2nd to start. Lead off hitter flies out deep to right, runner moves over. Next guy up grounds out to deep short or another deep fly ball, runner scores. If it's the top of the 10th, pitcher gets the next guy out. His team doesn't score in the bottom of the 10th. Game over, perfect game still?

No.

The forerunner on 2nd is officially scored as an error. Thus, the perfect game ends at that point. It is still a no hitter as he pitched to all batters.

_________________
"When people want their version of the truth, they go find it, no matter how baseless their beliefs." -- Ken Rosenthal
Top
 Profile  
 
Curious Hair
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:29 pm
Posts: 57264
Location: Kilfish, Ill.
pizza_Place: Lou Malnati's
I know the runner is an unearned run, does that necessarily mean scoring as if he reached on an error?

_________________
Molly Lambert wrote:
The future holds the possibility to be great or terrible, and since it has not yet occurred it remains simultaneously both.
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 23 of 41
  [ 1229 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26 ... 41  Next

Board index » CHICAGO AND NATIONAL TEAMS » MLB

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group