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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:46 pm 
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IMU wrote:
I worked at the Hanover Park Park District for several years. I currently have nieces and nephews that are teenagers. I play games on the internet.

Maybe your problem is that you WORK with teenagers. If you're in a position of power, you're not a fly on the wall when you get a bunch of teenagers in the same room. You may think you have a reading on teenagers. You do not.

The most vulgar things I hear in any given week are uttered by teenagers.


Vulgarity- sure. But the level of acceptance of different races, homosexuality, and transitioning or transgender students have dramatically improved since our HS years, I am assuming you are a Gen Xer. Sure, you still have ignorant, racist kids but social media now gives them a louder voice but don't think those numbers have increased because you hear a few of them. In Hader's case, the awareness that kids now have and how we have progressed in the last 20-30 years makes comparing what we did or would have done in our youth to what Hader did an invalid comparison.

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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:51 pm 
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Bernstein: Short-Sighted Brewers Fans Celebrate Hader
The public embrace of Josh Hader came far too soon, far too easily.
Dan Bernstein
July 22, 2018 - 5:23 pm


(670 The Score) Those were quite the optics in Milwaukee on Saturday night, as 36,000 people sent a message to Brewers reliever Josh Hader, with many rising to their feet for extra, full-throated emphasis.

"No worries about using the N-word multiple times, Josh! We're with you!! It's OK!" was one inference.

"YEAHH!! KKK!! Damn right, white power!!" was another.

It was an ugly look even if the implied sentiment intended was largely something more nuanced, along the lines of accepting an apology and welcoming him back because he's really good at throwing a baseball. The mass cheering was an over-the-top insult to the groups that Hader offended with the tweets he posted proudly when he was 17 and that were unearthed last week. The crowd of mostly white and straight people was happy to demonstrate to the world that the feelings of those not like them matter far less than just having their guy back.

Applauding Hader for on-field success upon his comeback and expressions of contrition and understanding would be one thing, but this swell of reflexive support just for walking out to the mound gave the appearance of needless aggressiveness, a defiant display that reeked of recently reinvigorated elements that once would have been ashamed of unmasking themselves and now excuse nastiness by clinging to their perceived right to free speech without consequences.

Hader has said all the right things as part of the well-worn protocol of damage control and crisis public relations, insisting he's not racist or anti-gay but was just playing so when in high school in Maryland. It's possible he means it, and the immediate backlash to his racist and ant-gay statements has been the catalyst for him to begin to change and grow as a person. It's also possible he's a total racist scumbag and is lying through his teeth.

The point is that I don't know and you don't know, but a stadium full of Brewers fans was sure certain in the moment and couldn't wait to tell us so, as were those who leaped to defend them on social media.

Those fans are either rock-solid convinced that Hader really isn't horrible or they don't think that his comments make him so because they agree with him. Another possibility is the murky area between the two, the place where some people get all the benefit of every doubt in ways that other professional athletes may not.

It would be instructive to see the intersections on a Venn diagram that shows how the circle of vocal Brewers fans might overlay with those attacking NFL players for peacefully protesting injustice or those unable or unwilling to empathize with Bucks guard Sterling Brown when he was profiled and assaulted by Milwaukee police.

Crowd behavior has a way telling truths in a manner that the response of an individual may not. Social facilitation has a powerful effect on psychology and subsequent action, with inhibitions suppressed by the perception of relative safety in numbers.

That unsolicited public embrace of Josh Hader came far too soon and way too easily.

Dan Bernstein is a co-host of 670 The Score’s Bernstein & McKnight Show in middays. You can follow him on Twitter @dan_bernstein.​​
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Josh Hader


He's not even that smart. That is poorly argued, regardless of the context.


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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:52 pm 
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DAC wrote:
IMU wrote:
I worked at the Hanover Park Park District for several years. I currently have nieces and nephews that are teenagers. I play games on the internet.

Maybe your problem is that you WORK with teenagers. If you're in a position of power, you're not a fly on the wall when you get a bunch of teenagers in the same room. You may think you have a reading on teenagers. You do not.

The most vulgar things I hear in any given week are uttered by teenagers.


Vulgarity- sure. But the level of acceptance of different races, homosexuality, and transitioning or transgender students have dramatically improved since our HS years, I am assuming you are a Gen Xer. Sure, you still have ignorant, racist kids but social media now gives them a louder voice but don't think those numbers have increased because you hear a few of them. In Hader's case, the awareness that kids now have and how we have progressed in the last 20-30 years makes comparing what we did or would have done in our youth to what Hader did an invalid comparison.

Kids saying ignorant, racist things does not make them ignorant, racist kids. That is your disconnect. They are too dumb to understand. I don't believe Hader is racist. I believe he said the n word because that is what dumb white 17 year olds do. Now. 7 years ago. And 15 years ago.

They do accept different races and homosexuality more than teens did 30 years ago. But that doesn't stop them from the offensive jokes that get laughter out of their contemporaries.

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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:00 pm 
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Is “People who are 24 now usually didn’t say racist, homophobic things when they were teenagers.” the worst board opinion ever or just simply an all time bad opinion?

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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:01 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Is “People who are 24 now usually didn’t say racist, homophobic things when they were teenagers.” the worst board opinion ever or just simply an all time bad opinion?

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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:02 pm 
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IMU wrote:
DAC wrote:
IMU wrote:
I worked at the Hanover Park Park District for several years. I currently have nieces and nephews that are teenagers. I play games on the internet.

Maybe your problem is that you WORK with teenagers. If you're in a position of power, you're not a fly on the wall when you get a bunch of teenagers in the same room. You may think you have a reading on teenagers. You do not.

The most vulgar things I hear in any given week are uttered by teenagers.


Vulgarity- sure. But the level of acceptance of different races, homosexuality, and transitioning or transgender students have dramatically improved since our HS years, I am assuming you are a Gen Xer. Sure, you still have ignorant, racist kids but social media now gives them a louder voice but don't think those numbers have increased because you hear a few of them. In Hader's case, the awareness that kids now have and how we have progressed in the last 20-30 years makes comparing what we did or would have done in our youth to what Hader did an invalid comparison.

Kids saying ignorant, racist things does not make them ignorant, racist kids. That is your disconnect. They are too dumb to understand. I don't believe Hader is racist. I believe he said the n word because that is what dumb white 17 year olds do. Now. 7 years ago. And 15 years ago.

They do accept different races and homosexuality more than teens did 30 years ago. But that doesn't stop them from the offensive jokes that get laughter out of their contemporaries.


Ignorant, racist kids say and write ignorant, racist things. While they are dumb, they often turn out to be dumb, racist adults. Sure, some of those kids evolve and learn through experience but many of them don't. They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. And I sure as hell am not going to speculate that they were just fooling around and didn't know any better.

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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:03 pm 
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DAC wrote:

Ignorant, racist kids say and write ignorant, racist things. While they are dumb, they often turn out to be dumb, racist adults. Sure, some of those kids evolve and learn through experience but many of them don't. They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. And I sure as hell am not going to speculate that they were just fooling around and didn't know any better.


So you're in the "punish them forever for shit they said as kids" crowd.

Got it.

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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:05 pm 
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sjboyd0137 wrote:
DAC wrote:

Ignorant, racist kids say and write ignorant, racist things. While they are dumb, they often turn out to be dumb, racist adults. Sure, some of those kids evolve and learn through experience but many of them don't. They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. And I sure as hell am not going to speculate that they were just fooling around and didn't know any better.


So you're in the "punish them forever for shit they said as kids" crowd.

Got it.


Where did I say anything about punishment?

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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:05 pm 
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DAC wrote:

Ignorant, racist kids say and write ignorant, racist things. While they are dumb, they often turn out to be dumb, racist adults. Sure, some of those kids evolve and learn through experience but many of them don't. They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. And I sure as hell am not going to speculate that they were just fooling around and didn't know any better.

This leads me to believe there's probably a better chance that you're a despicable human being than Josh Hader is.

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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:06 pm 
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DAC wrote:


Ignorant, racist kids say and write ignorant, racist things. While they are dumb, they often turn out to be dumb, racist adults. Sure, some of those kids evolve and learn through experience but many of them don't. They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. And I sure as hell am not going to speculate that they were just fooling around and didn't know any better.

Wtf....


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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:06 pm 
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DAC wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
DAC wrote:

Ignorant, racist kids say and write ignorant, racist things. While they are dumb, they often turn out to be dumb, racist adults. Sure, some of those kids evolve and learn through experience but many of them don't. They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. And I sure as hell am not going to speculate that they were just fooling around and didn't know any better.


So you're in the "punish them forever for shit they said as kids" crowd.

Got it.


Where did I say anything about punishment?


It's as implied as your belief that kids don't really evolve beyond being douchebag teenagers.

It's okay if you feel that way. It's your right.

It's kind of sad, but whatever.

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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:07 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Is “People who are 24 now usually didn’t say racist, homophobic things when they were teenagers.” the worst board opinion ever or just simply an all time bad opinion?


Wow- what imaginary posts are you reading?

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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:09 pm 
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sjboyd0137 wrote:
DAC wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
DAC wrote:

Ignorant, racist kids say and write ignorant, racist things. While they are dumb, they often turn out to be dumb, racist adults. Sure, some of those kids evolve and learn through experience but many of them don't. They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. And I sure as hell am not going to speculate that they were just fooling around and didn't know any better.


So you're in the "punish them forever for shit they said as kids" crowd.

Got it.


Where did I say anything about punishment?


It's as implied as your belief that kids don't really evolve beyond being douchebag teenagers.

It's okay if you feel that way. It's your right.

It's kind of sad, but whatever.


Many don't. When do you think racism starts?

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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:10 pm 
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tommy wrote:
DAC wrote:


Ignorant, racist kids say and write ignorant, racist things. While they are dumb, they often turn out to be dumb, racist adults. Sure, some of those kids evolve and learn through experience but many of them don't. They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. And I sure as hell am not going to speculate that they were just fooling around and didn't know any better.

Wtf....


Does this hit too close to home?

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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:13 pm 
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DAC wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
DAC wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
DAC wrote:

Ignorant, racist kids say and write ignorant, racist things. While they are dumb, they often turn out to be dumb, racist adults. Sure, some of those kids evolve and learn through experience but many of them don't. They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. And I sure as hell am not going to speculate that they were just fooling around and didn't know any better.


So you're in the "punish them forever for shit they said as kids" crowd.

Got it.


Where did I say anything about punishment?


It's as implied as your belief that kids don't really evolve beyond being douchebag teenagers.

It's okay if you feel that way. It's your right.

It's kind of sad, but whatever.


Many don't. When do you think racism starts?


I think calling a teenager a racist twat is the wrong direction to take...they may say hateful, demeaning shit as kids when they're still under their parents' roofs, but I think as they grow up and experience the world, that does more to shape their minds than whatever drivel they spew out as kids.

Let me ask you this. Do you remember being a 17 year old dickhead? Do you think you probably said some stuff that would make 40 whatever old you cringe today? If so, you evolved. If not...that explains all I need to know.

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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:14 pm 
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btw, regarding james gunn's old tweets getting him fired from guardians of the galaxy 3 and today's bit about dan harmon's 2009 video where he raped a baby [doll] reddit chimes in with this:

Image

none of this applies to josh hader, of course. evidently he hasn't INSPIRED millions. MILLIONS!!! like dave bautista tweeted of james gunn =D

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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:37 pm 
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DAC wrote:
tommy wrote:
DAC wrote:


Ignorant, racist kids say and write ignorant, racist things. While they are dumb, they often turn out to be dumb, racist adults. Sure, some of those kids evolve and learn through experience but many of them don't. They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. And I sure as hell am not going to speculate that they were just fooling around and didn't know any better.

Wtf....


Does this hit too close to home?

No, you just don't know how people mature and it seems like you have a "racism is the worst sin of all time" mindset.


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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:46 pm 
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How people act and talk at 17 is how they will act and talk as an adult.

Probably best to scour social media, identify these people, and put them in a Camps somewhere.

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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:25 pm 
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tommy wrote:
DAC wrote:
tommy wrote:
DAC wrote:


Ignorant, racist kids say and write ignorant, racist things. While they are dumb, they often turn out to be dumb, racist adults. Sure, some of those kids evolve and learn through experience but many of them don't. They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. And I sure as hell am not going to speculate that they were just fooling around and didn't know any better.

Wtf....


Does this hit too close to home?

No, you just don't know how people mature and it seems like you have a "racism is the worst sin of all time" mindset.


I do hate racism and homophobia. You're right that I don't know if Hader matured or not but I do know that most racist and homophobic adults were racist and homophobic teenagers. Maybe Hader has had life experiences, evolved, and would never post those things today but I definitely am not going to default to a way of thinking that he was just being a dumb teenager. I will be skeptical of any kind of apology he gives. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what I think. He is not going to be legally punished or anything other than losing an endorsement or possibly not being as attractive to his next team. But I sure as hell wouldn't have given him a standing ovation even if he did make my favorite team more likely to win.

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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:28 pm 
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@Jason1Goff

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People who feel that way rarely do.

@rannochio
Replying to @Jason1Goff
People can’t change? Pretty naïve on your part


Goff is down for those camps. He will identify the racists, and then let everyone know that once they have been identified they "rarely" change.

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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:29 pm 
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DAC wrote:
tommy wrote:
DAC wrote:
tommy wrote:
DAC wrote:


Ignorant, racist kids say and write ignorant, racist things. While they are dumb, they often turn out to be dumb, racist adults. Sure, some of those kids evolve and learn through experience but many of them don't. They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. And I sure as hell am not going to speculate that they were just fooling around and didn't know any better.

Wtf....


Does this hit too close to home?

No, you just don't know how people mature and it seems like you have a "racism is the worst sin of all time" mindset.


I do hate racism and homophobia. You're right that I don't know if Hader matured or not but I do know that most racist and homophobic adults were racist and homophobic teenagers. Maybe Hader has had life experiences, evolved, and would never post those things today but I definitely am not going to default to a way of thinking that he was just being a dumb teenager. I will be skeptical of any kind of apology he gives. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what I think. He is not going to be legally punished or anything other than losing an endorsement or possibly not being as attractive to his next team. But I sure as hell wouldn't have given him a standing ovation even if he did make my favorite team more likely to win.


Bravo. How brave of you. I hate them more than you. And I also hate cancer and rainy weekend days. So take that.

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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:36 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
DAC wrote:
tommy wrote:
DAC wrote:
tommy wrote:
DAC wrote:


Ignorant, racist kids say and write ignorant, racist things. While they are dumb, they often turn out to be dumb, racist adults. Sure, some of those kids evolve and learn through experience but many of them don't. They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. And I sure as hell am not going to speculate that they were just fooling around and didn't know any better.

Wtf....


Does this hit too close to home?

No, you just don't know how people mature and it seems like you have a "racism is the worst sin of all time" mindset.


I do hate racism and homophobia. You're right that I don't know if Hader matured or not but I do know that most racist and homophobic adults were racist and homophobic teenagers. Maybe Hader has had life experiences, evolved, and would never post those things today but I definitely am not going to default to a way of thinking that he was just being a dumb teenager. I will be skeptical of any kind of apology he gives. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what I think. He is not going to be legally punished or anything other than losing an endorsement or possibly not being as attractive to his next team. But I sure as hell wouldn't have given him a standing ovation even if he did make my favorite team more likely to win.


Bravo. How brave of you. I hate them more than you. And I also hate cancer and rainy weekend days. So take that.


Hey dipshit- I was responding to a post directed at me. So fuck you and your condescension.

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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:50 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
DAC wrote:

Ignorant, racist kids say and write ignorant, racist things. While they are dumb, they often turn out to be dumb, racist adults. Sure, some of those kids evolve and learn through experience but many of them don't. They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. And I sure as hell am not going to speculate that they were just fooling around and didn't know any better.

This leads me to believe there's probably a better chance that you're a despicable human being than Josh Hader is.


Don't you have some dumb thread to start that most people will ignore? Just about every time I am in a thread with you, you contribute nothing and either take something out of context, ignore nuance, or create a straw man.

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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:29 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Quote:

@Jason1Goff

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People who feel that way rarely do.

@rannochio
Replying to @Jason1Goff
People can’t change? Pretty naïve on your part


Goff is down for those camps. He will identify the racists, and then let everyone know that once they have been identified they "rarely" change.


Not surprising he is in the corner of Camps.

SAD.

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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:32 pm 
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put them in a Camps somewhere.


Everyone would be misidentified.


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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:32 pm 
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I don't care about Josh Hader, his team, his terrible hairstyle, or what his high school twitter account says.
Who cares what a 17 year old has to say about 99% of the time?
And DAC is completely full of shit if he actually believes that 'today's kids' or people in Hader's age group
are much more refined and evolved than we 'born in the 70's kids' were.
They're probably worse now.

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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:33 pm 
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DAC, you acknowledge that who a person is at 17 isn't necessarily who they will be when they are 24 right? And that teenagers tend to say horrible things?

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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:34 pm 
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Peoria Matt wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
put them in a Camps somewhere.


Everyone would be misidentified.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Touch em all.

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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:52 pm 
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DAC wrote:
Hey dipshit- I was responding to a post directed at me. So fuck you and your condescension.


Maybe it's more than just teenagers that say stupid things they would not say to people in real life on the Internet.

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For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


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 Post subject: Re: Josh Hader tweets
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:21 pm 
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DAC wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
DAC wrote:

Ignorant, racist kids say and write ignorant, racist things. While they are dumb, they often turn out to be dumb, racist adults. Sure, some of those kids evolve and learn through experience but many of them don't. They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. And I sure as hell am not going to speculate that they were just fooling around and didn't know any better.

This leads me to believe there's probably a better chance that you're a despicable human being than Josh Hader is.


Don't you have some dumb thread to start that most people will ignore? Just about every time I am in a thread with you, you contribute nothing and either take something out of context, ignore nuance, or create a straw man.

My threads usually do well.

I’d focus on yourself before worrying about me. I’ve never gotten as torched or said as something as dumb as you have in this thread.

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