Frank and dolphin just can't help themselves, they gotta take shots.
Halladay will make it in.
Kershaw will make it in.
Felix will make it in.
I would say Bumgarner is on pace to make it in.
| Chicago Fanatics Message Board https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/ |
|
| Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=101504 |
Page 1 of 2 |
| Author: | Rod [ Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
I'm pretty sure Halladay is going to make it in. Besides him, who is the next starting pitcher to go into the HOF? Is anyone pitching right now who has already punched his ticket to Cooperstown? Matt Cain? |
|
| Author: | Jbi11s [ Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
King Felix? Kershaw?... Quintana? |
|
| Author: | Rod [ Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
Jbi11s wrote: King Felix? Kershaw?... Quintana? I don't think Felix is really there yet, but maybe. I would say Verlander is closer. There is going to have to be an acceptance that some of the old benchmarks can no longer be reasonably met. Kershaw has been so good and so dominating that if he died tomorrow I think he goes in. He'd be a comp to Koufax. But there is the possibility that he declines and pitches himself out of consideration. IMU doesn't believe Colon should get in, but I consider him a better pitcher than several guys who are already enshrined. |
|
| Author: | FavreFan [ Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
Mark Buehrle, Freddy Garcia, Jon Garland, Jose Contreras, and El Duque, but they should all go in together obviously. |
|
| Author: | pittmike [ Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
FavreFan wrote: Mark Buehrle, Freddy Garcia, Jon Garland, Jose Contreras, and El Duque, but they should all go in together obviously. 2005. |
|
| Author: | Rod [ Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
FavreFan wrote: Mark Buehrle, Freddy Garcia, Jon Garland, Jose Contreras, and El Duque, but they should all go in together obviously. I know he isn't viewed this way and he will never get in, but I definitely think Contreras belongs in the HOF. He's a modern day Satchel Paige. A guy who was prevented- through no fault of his own and by forces beyond his control- from having a full major league career. He is the greatest pitcher in Cuban history and when he came over to the big leagues at an advanced age he was arguably the best pitcher in the game for a period of over a year spanning two seasons. |
|
| Author: | Cashman [ Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: I'm pretty sure Halladay is going to make it in. Besides him, who is the next starting pitcher to go into the HOF? Is anyone pitching right now who has already punched his ticket to Cooperstown? Matt Cain? So, I think we are passed the era of having the 300 win pitcher, so what is the criteria? Mark Buehrle has a no hitter and perfect game, and over 200 wins. Roy Halladay.......pretty good. |
|
| Author: | badrogue17 [ Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
We're definitely going to have to identify the poor souls who were truly great pitchers but couldn't pitch over their poor run support |
|
| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
We have all of these new fangled bemchmarks to tell us who was good! Given that, how can Kerrie Woods be kept out? After all, he pitched the greatest game ever according to some arbitrary formula. |
|
| Author: | good dolphin [ Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
The guy the Cubs just got in the trade with the Mariners |
|
| Author: | RFDC [ Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
Frank and dolphin just can't help themselves, they gotta take shots. Halladay will make it in. Kershaw will make it in. Felix will make it in. I would say Bumgarner is on pace to make it in. |
|
| Author: | Chus [ Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: I'm pretty sure Halladay is going to make it in. Besides him, who is the next starting pitcher to go into the HOF? Is anyone pitching right now who has already punched his ticket to Cooperstown? Matt Cain? Halladay will be in. Jack Morris and Mike Mussina should be in. Current guys, I would go with Kershaw for sure. Greinke, Verlander, and Felix are getting close. |
|
| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
RFDC, it was more of a shot at Bill James and anyone else who blindly treats some advanced stats as the new baseball bible. |
|
| Author: | Rod [ Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
Chus wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: I'm pretty sure Halladay is going to make it in. Besides him, who is the next starting pitcher to go into the HOF? Is anyone pitching right now who has already punched his ticket to Cooperstown? Matt Cain? Halladay will be in. Jack Morris and Mike Mussina should be in. Current guys, I would go with Kershaw for sure. Greinke, Verlander, and Felix are getting close. Morris is a guy who won't hold up with the modern stats guys. |
|
| Author: | Chus [ Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Chus wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: I'm pretty sure Halladay is going to make it in. Besides him, who is the next starting pitcher to go into the HOF? Is anyone pitching right now who has already punched his ticket to Cooperstown? Matt Cain? Halladay will be in. Jack Morris and Mike Mussina should be in. Current guys, I would go with Kershaw for sure. Greinke, Verlander, and Felix are getting close. Morris is a guy who won't hold up with the modern stats guys. That's a shame, because you and I both know he was tough as nails. Curt Schilling should probably be in as well. |
|
| Author: | DannyB [ Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
Once the Veterans Committee reviews Anthony Young's career in light of current and future advanced metrics, I like his chances. That two-year stretch where he went 3-30 was no fault of his own. |
|
| Author: | Brick [ Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
FavreFan wrote: Mark Buehrle, Freddy Garcia, Jon Garland, Jose Contreras, and El Duque, but they should all go in together obviously. Best starting playoff staff in the past 50 years?
|
|
| Author: | newper [ Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
The only active pitcher who is guaranteed in the hall is Kershaw. Halladay will get in for sure as well. In my mind, the HOF for a starting pitcher, you need to have been considered one of the top 5 pitchers for 5 years in a row, and at least 1 where you were the best. Halladay is on the fringe of that, but has an earlier Cy Young to help him out, so that's enough. Johan Santana will be in. Guys like Verlander could get in the HOF, and might with our silly steroid voting which is really pushing down induction numbers. |
|
| Author: | Rod [ Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
newper wrote: Johan Santana will be in. I don't think so. |
|
| Author: | newper [ Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: newper wrote: Johan Santana will be in. I don't think so. He will because (1) steroids are causing people to lower standards for non-steroid people, and (2) people will bring up Koufax. There was a period of at least 4 years where you wanted to go up against anyone but Santana. I agree that if you were lights out one year and then sucked, you don't get in the HOF, but Santana has 5 years at least of A-list performance. |
|
| Author: | Cashman [ Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: newper wrote: Johan Santana will be in. I don't think so. What about James Baldwin? |
|
| Author: | pittmike [ Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
Boilermaker Rick wrote: FavreFan wrote: Mark Buehrle, Freddy Garcia, Jon Garland, Jose Contreras, and El Duque, but they should all go in together obviously. Best starting playoff staff in the past 50 years?It was beautiful example of lightning in a bottle. |
|
| Author: | Cashman [ Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
pittmike wrote: Boilermaker Rick wrote: FavreFan wrote: Mark Buehrle, Freddy Garcia, Jon Garland, Jose Contreras, and El Duque, but they should all go in together obviously. Best starting playoff staff in the past 50 years?It was beautiful example of lightning in a bottle. Yes and no. Marky Mark was pretty good in his career, Jose was lights out between like 2 seasons, Garcia was doing well, Garland was the outlier remember he was skipped in the 1st rd. The Duke was amazing in the playoffs. |
|
| Author: | Rod [ Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
newper wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: newper wrote: Johan Santana will be in. I don't think so. He will because (1) steroids are causing people to lower standards for non-steroid people, and (2) people will bring up Koufax. There was a period of at least 4 years where you wanted to go up against anyone but Santana. I agree that if you were lights out one year and then sucked, you don't get in the HOF, but Santana has 5 years at least of A-list performance. He has a shot, but he just seems to have ended too soon. He's not quite like Koufax or Dean or Kershaw. He's just a little less dominating. Clearly his career peak is much higher than Buehrle or Colon, but did he really have a better career? Probably, but the counting stats have always meant something when it comes to HOF induction. Santana has eight premium seasons, seven as a starter, I'm just not sure it's enough. I think you could argue either way. I don't think Buehrle belongs in the HOF, but Colon is close. You're probably right as they're going to to be looking for starting pitchers to go in. Like with Kershaw, I agree that he's in if his career ended today. Let's say he has back surgery and it's over. He really is very similar to Koufax. But- and this doesn't really make sense and it's probably not fair- if he comes back from the surgery a shadow of himself and pitches another eight seasons that look like John Danks, I think it's possible he could pitch himself out of consideration. |
|
| Author: | newper [ Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: He has a shot, but he just seems to have ended too soon. He's not quite like Koufax or Dean or Kershaw. He's just a little less dominating. Clearly his career peak is much higher than Buehrle or Colon, but did he really have a better career? Probably, but the counting stats have always meant something when it comes to HOF induction. Santana has eight premium seasons, seven as a starter, I'm just not sure it's enough. I think you could argue either way. I don't think Buehrle belongs in the HOF, but Colon is close. You're probably right as they're going to to be looking for starting pitchers to go in. Like with Kershaw, I agree that he's in if his career ended today. Let's say he has back surgery and it's over. He really is very similar to Koufax. But- and this doesn't really make sense and it's probably not fair- if he comes back from the surgery a shadow of himself and pitches another eight seasons that look like John Danks, I think it's possible he could pitch himself out of consideration. Agreed that I wouldn't put Santana in the upper echelon of pitchers, but I think he has enough to get in. And I am in complete agreement on the last point... say Santana came back from the injuries and pitched as well as a journeyman pitcher for seven years... it hurts his chances. The HOF to me should be for honoring great players during their greatest years. Santana makes that cut for me.... Kershaw as well, even if he pitched like Danks for 10 years after this one. |
|
| Author: | lipidquadcab [ Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Matt Cain? Was this serious?
|
|
| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
badrogue17 wrote: We're definitely going to have to identify the poor souls who were truly great pitchers but couldn't pitch over their poor run support Like Nolan Ryan |
|
| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
Tim Hudson |
|
| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
Schilling Bumgarner and Morris are hall of famers |
|
| Author: | Rod [ Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hall of Fame Starting Pitchers |
rogers park bryan wrote: Schilling Bumgarner and Morris are hall of famers Bumgarner isn't there yet. Morris has had his chances and SABRmetrics aren't helping him. Schilling is a maybe. I wouldn't put any of them or Johan Santana in before Doc Gooden. |
|
| Page 1 of 2 | All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ] |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group https://www.phpbb.com/ |
|