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Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

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IMU

Post subject: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:35 pm

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Title says it all. Allowed Trevor Williams, with a losing record and almost 5.00 ERA, to keep up with him. Couldn't even get his team a win against the Pirates.

Same outcome as John Lackey yesterday.

Bad.

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IMU

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:41 pm

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RICH HILL PITCHED WORSE THAN JOHN LACKEY. UNBELIEVABLE!!!

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JORR

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:43 pm

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IMU wrote:

Don't clown yourself. Trevor Williams faced a team with a .720 winning percentage that has scored 100 more runs than his own team. Are you saying he didn't pitch well?

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IMU

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:44 pm

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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

IMU wrote:

Don't clown yourself. Trevor Williams faced a team with a .720 winning percentage that has scored 100 more runs than his own team. Are you saying he didn't pitch well?

No he didn't pitch well. He didn't get a win.

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Frank Coztansa

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:44 pm

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He didnt get a loss.

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Urlacher's missing neck

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:45 pm

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Justin Wilson had a clean inning. That is the most remarkable pitching feat of the evening.

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JORR

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:45 pm

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IMU wrote:

RICH HILL PITCHED WORSE THAN JOHN LACKEY. UNBELIEVABLE!!!

Hill's performance and Lackey's are completely unrelated. It's like saying the guy bagging groceries at Mariano's did his job better than you did today.

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FavreFan

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:46 pm

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IMU wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

IMU wrote:

Don't clown yourself. Trevor Williams faced a team with a .720 winning percentage that has scored 100 more runs than his own team. Are you saying he didn't pitch well?

No he didn't pitch well. He didn't get a win.

He pitched well. He didn't pitch well enough to win. Simple.

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IMU

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:47 pm

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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

IMU wrote:

RICH HILL PITCHED WORSE THAN JOHN LACKEY. UNBELIEVABLE!!!

Hill's performance and Lackey's are completely unrelated. It's like saying the guy bagging groceries at Mariano's did his job better than you did today.

Read your post a few times. Then walk away for 5 minutes, and think about it. Then come back and reply again.

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JORR

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:47 pm

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IMU wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

IMU wrote:

Don't clown yourself. Trevor Williams faced a team with a .720 winning percentage that has scored 100 more runs than his own team. Are you saying he didn't pitch well?

No he didn't pitch well. He didn't get a win.

Are you saying a guy can't pitch well without getting a win? That's pretty dumb. I'm sorry you hate Trevor Williams. He didn't get any run support.

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IMU

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:48 pm

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Did Trevor Williams pitch better than Rich Hill?

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JORR

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:49 pm

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IMU wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

IMU wrote:

RICH HILL PITCHED WORSE THAN JOHN LACKEY. UNBELIEVABLE!!!

Hill's performance and Lackey's are completely unrelated. It's like saying the guy bagging groceries at Mariano's did his job better than you did today.

Read your post a few times. Then walk away for 5 minutes, and think about it. Then come back and reply again.

No need. Lackey and Hill pitched in different games on opposite sides of the country. There's a terrible thought in every one of your posts in this thread. Where was poor Trevor's run support?

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Frank Coztansa

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:51 pm

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Point taken, but Cincinatti and Pittsburgh arent that far away.

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FavreFan

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:52 pm

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I don't know why IMU does this to himself. He's quite the masochist

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SpiralStairs

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:53 pm

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FavreFan wrote:

I don't know why IMU does this to himself. He's quite the masochist

Nah. Pretty sure JORR is gonna be swayed this time. The facade is beginning to crack.

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JORR

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:53 pm

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IMU wrote:

Did Trevor Williams pitch better than Rich Hill?

Hard to parse. Hill covered a few more outs but he was facing an inferior lineup. Both guys pitched well. They probably shouldn't have sent Hill out in the tenth. Everyone gets tough losses. It's not a rarity. If Hill lacked "run support" so did Williams.

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IMU

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:54 pm

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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

No need. Lackey and Hill pitched in different games on opposite sides of the country. There's a terrible thought in every one of your posts in this thread. Where was poor Trevor's run support?

So I can't compare the quality of my cooking to the meals of top chefs since we aren't in the same kitchen using the same ingredients?

We might as well throw out all season end awards now as well. How can you decide who wins Cy Young? The top 3 candidates may never have faced each other the entire season?

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JORR

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:56 pm

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IMU wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

No need. Lackey and Hill pitched in different games on opposite sides of the country. There's a terrible thought in every one of your posts in this thread. Where was poor Trevor's run support?

No, I'm sure your pasta salad stands up to anything made by Jacques Pepin. You just lack utensil support.

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leashyourkids

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:41 am

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Nonsense. Win/Loss is not meaningful within a single game sample size and this game proves that.

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JORR

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:10 am

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leashyourkids wrote:

Nonsense. Win/Loss is not meaningful within a single game sample size and this game proves that.

No shit. But the other side of that- and the reason I posted the other topic- is to illustrate how goddamn dumb the concept of "run support" or a lack thereof actually is. Saying that Trevor Williams lacked run support completely ignores how Hill pitched.

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IMU

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:20 am

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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

how Hill pitched.

Not well. He lost. He didn't do his job.

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JORR

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:10 am

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IMU wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

how Hill pitched.

Not well. He lost. He didn't do his job.

It happens. Sadly for the modern baseball fan, performance is only relative to the other events in the game in which those performances/events occur.

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leashyourkids

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:30 am

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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

leashyourkids wrote:

Nonsense. Win/Loss is not meaningful within a single game sample size and this game proves that.

You could say he went up against a guy who pitched very well (huge understatement). I disagree that run support can't be an argument within the context of a single game. Over a career, fine - it likely averages out.

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Brick

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:36 am

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
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I guess strikeouts and home runs are important for a pitcher until they aren't.

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leashyourkids

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:39 am

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Boilermaker Rick wrote:

I guess strikeouts and home runs are important for a pitcher until they aren't.

wut

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Brick

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:44 am

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leashyourkids wrote:

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

I guess strikeouts and home runs are important for a pitcher until they aren't.

wut

Rich Hill, 1 home run given up, 10 strikeouts.
Other pitchers, 0 home runs given up, 7 strikeouts.

Pitchers can only truly control home runs and strikeouts. I'd say Rich Hill wasn't better than the other pitchers and no-hitters are flawed.

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leashyourkids

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:48 am

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I don't know what you're babbling about this morning, and I don't really want to find out.

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Brick

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:57 am

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leashyourkids wrote:

I don't know what you're babbling about this morning, and I don't really want to find out.

It's the thought behind BABIP, though I should have included walks but those walks in that game weren't damaging to the opposing team.

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/pitching/babip/

Quote:

BABIP is likely even more important when evaluating pitchers because they have almost no control over what happens to a ball once it is put in play. A pitcher can control their strikeouts, walks, and home runs, and through those, the number of balls they allow to be put into play, but once the ball leaves the bat, it’s out of their hands. As a result, pitcher BABIP is heavily influenced by defense and luck, which means the number of hits a pitcher gives up is influenced by things outside of their control. And if hits are somewhat outside of a pitcher’s control, so will their runs allowed totals.

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Juiced

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:10 am

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Boilermaker Rick wrote:

leashyourkids wrote:

I don't know what you're babbling about this morning, and I don't really want to find out.

It's the thought behind BABIP, though I should have included walks but those walks in that game weren't damaging to the opposing team.

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/pitching/babip/

Quote:

Hill had a PERFECT GAME taken away because he received no run support. He could not have performed any better then he did for the 9 inning game. :roll:

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Brick

Post subject: Re: Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight.

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:22 am

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Juiced wrote:

Hill had a PERFECT GAME taken away because he received no run support. He could not have performed any better then he did for the 9 inning game. :roll:

Rich Hill didn't do his job tonight because he gave up a home run while the opposing pitcher didn't. In my opinion, 3 more strikeouts doesn't justify giving up a home run.

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