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DeGrom has a 53-39 career W-L record.

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I wonder if the writer is Steven Matz's father

Should we ignore all the guys he faces who pitch better than he does? The Mets average about half a run less per game than the best offense in the NL. Shouldn't a real Cy Young candidate be able to pitch over that when facing mostly ordinary pitchers?

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With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Why look at the team’s run support over the entire season for all pitchers on the team? Why not look at the team’s output when the pitcher in question is on the mound? deGrom has the 12th lowest run support out of 108 pitchers with at least 100 innings so far this season.

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Lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be.

Not to mention that run averages are skewed by 24 run outbursts against position players on the mound.

Because that ignores the game conditions where a "lesser pitcher" outperformed deGrom. Unless you believe that the Mets purposely don't score when deGrom pitches.

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There is absolutely some psychological stuff involved when the ACE is on the mound vs. the Chatwood

The outbursts occur before the position player gets to the mound. That's why they get there. And since it was the Mets allowing all those runs, maybe the disparity between their offense and the Nationals' is even less than it appears.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
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And the half run difference is not meaningless or insignificant.

In whose favor?

_________________
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By definition it is, since there is no way to score half a run. In a practical sense the offenses are dead even and you have the great deGrom pitching.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
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This was never about pitching Wins. The whole argument is the all MLB offenses are equal. They are not. Half a run more is significant. Just like a guy with a 3.01 era is significantly better than one with a 3.99 (even though you cant score 98% of a run )

Not to mention a team like the Mets playing prospects who may not be ready (and are a very different group then the one who compiled the per game average) vs. a Braves team in the pennant race.

No, that's incorrect and ridiculous to even suggest. As if a pitcher with a 3.01 era is equal to a guy with a 3.99 era.


Anyway, I just think you should cut to the chase and start with THIS part. This is the part of the discussion that matters.

In a single game there is no difference between those two pitchers. That's why 3.99 guys outpitch 3.01 guys all the time.

Even so, with pitchers it's different in that we're discussing a single piece. Either he's good today or not. It's more likely that the 3.01 guy is going to be better than the 3.99 guy. An offense is composed of many more parts. And they shouldn't be functioning at their best vs. Cy Young

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
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With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

There is definitely a difference and he doesnt outpitch him all the time, quite the opposite.

BTW, what happens when a superstar offensive player gets hurt? Is his team still the 4.53 runs per game team without him? Do you adjust for that? What if Mike Trout is suspended for a game? Angels still the same offense? Is a win over them equal to a win over them with Trout in the lineup?

Are you making my argument for me? You're pointing out another flaw in "run support" stats.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
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This is it. There's finally going to a middle ground struck, and a common understanding accepted between the two sides. Historic day.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

No, Im proving the ridiculous part of your argument. The one you hide (all offenses are equal) because deep down, you know it's crazy.

You think a Win over a Trout-less Angels or Bonds-less Giants is equal to one with them. That is crazy.

You just trapped yourself. You believe all offenses are equal NO CONTEXT NEEDED, but when discussing run support you are a FIEND FOR CONTEXT

As usual the truth is in the middle. W-L should not be dismissed, but it shouldnt be worshipped either.

And the thought that any offense that is within one run per game of another is exactly the same is crazy.

Your elementary, middle school, high school and college teachers are all rolling over in their graves.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Were their corpses interred on spits?

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You'll need to explain how a team can score a fraction of a run and why we would expect them to score it off a guy you are touting for Cy Young.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
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With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Again, a team doesnt need to score a fraction of a run for .99 average over 162 games to be significant.

Somehow winning % is important when I pitcher can't win .6 of a game.

The problem with using a W/L record to assess a pitcher is that a team's offense, relief pitching, and defense all impact a team's odds of winning yet the starting pitcher only impacts the innings they pitch. Did people even read the article? In his 6 loses the team scored 10 runs. In his 10 no-decisions he has allowed 10 earned runs. C'mon- this is not a tough one.

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Lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be.

It's just not significant within a single game. It's certainly not enough to excuse multiple losses by a guy you think should be Cy Young. And the half run is the difference between the Mets and the best offense. In most games the difference is less than that and in some the Mets even have the advantage.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
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But I would argue that that's too many guys pitching as well or better than you did in the same games.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
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But not against the same quality team as evidenced by the run support stat I posted. Plus, those pitchers have not pitched as well the entire season. How do we know that? deGrom's stats are right at the top for every major category. deGrom's record is due to him playing on a poor team and being unlucky. Has Lester been a better pitcher than deGrom this season?

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Lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be.

The reason he got less "run support" is because another guy pitched better than he did.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don