Not a baseball guy but my initial impression was of course not. Solid numbers though.

Let's leave Harold Baines out of this

_________________
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I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
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No chance

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Further confirmation of my thought that Bill James needs to go away.

Now.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

No way Abreu was better than Reggie Smith but James and Kenny are obsessed with walk rates so they're not talking about him.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Kash, and Don

Basically Craig Biggio but never reached a needed milestone for induction. If he got 3000 hits, I would say yes. But he fell well short of that.

Most impressive thing about Abreu was his SB numbers.

I would say that I forgot all about him means no.

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Elections have consequences.

Reggie Smith was a vital cog in some very good WS teams for almost(?) a decade?

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Glad to see my initial impression was correct.

Although i think RPB is a Kenny guy. Maybe he has an argument.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Here's the thing about that. If we're gonna be SABRmetric, we should be SABRmetric. He had a 75% success rate which is considered a statistical wash. So he's basically the same as if he had never attempted a steal at all.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Kash, and Don

Underrated player. Probably the third or fourth best switch hitter of all-time.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Kash, and Don

I voted no in Kenny's poll. I was surprised to see James urging people to vote YES.

Havent delved into the numbers, but I will say that Abreu's case got better with the Baines thing.

Yep

You dont hate James, you hate that he revealed you know less than you thought you did.

You say walk rates like they are insignificant.

OBP is the stat most correlated with winning. As boring as they may be #WalkRatesMatter

And having a .395 career obp is very impressive. He's not a HoFamer though.

This is not an argument for Abreu by me but it is interesting


Gwynn: .388 OBP, .459 SLG, 132 OPS+, 1,383 R, 1,138 RBI, 319 SB in 10,232 PA
Abreu: .395 OBP, .475 SLG, 128 OPS+, 1,453 R, 1,363 RBI, 400 SB in 10,081 PA

10 more pages thanks to this Stocktonesque assist from RPB

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

No, I just don't think he enjoys the playing of the actual game. Or respects the players as much as he did the stacks of beans he defended in the Iowa cannery he oozed out of.

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I admit, its a very arrogant post by me, but RR is coming from an arrogant place himself.

Lots of people decided they "knew" baseball and when the Sabermetric thing happened and we learned that we were wrong about some things and what they meant or how they related to winnig, a lot of people got upset and rebelled against...the numbers....which is obviously very weird.

Are NBA people like this with the value shot (3 pointers and close 2's) revolution?

Ultimately, either you're scoring a run or driving one in and if not, what did you really accomplish? Sure, letting the next guy come to bat by not making out is something, but it's not something that should sway a man's induction into the Hall of Fame.

I do consider Abreu better than Harold Baines though. I just don't think Baines should be the new standard.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Kash, and Don

But people generally only make the SABRmetric arguments that suit their case.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Kash, and Don

Maybe jerks on the internet. I think Kenny and James are consistent. I guarantee neither of them is using stolen bases as the a reason for Abreu to get in.


His stats are remarkably similar to Gwynn's though.

They are but I think that's more an aesthetics thing than arguing the shots aren't as valuable as the numbers say they are, and I get the aesthetics argument. James Harden isn't exactly a fun player to watch play.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Same. I dont argue when JORR says walks have made the game boring. But that doesnt mean the guys reporting the walk numbers are less legit.

The same way Rizzo and Bryant aren't fun to watch trying to coax a walk.

I don't fault Bill James for advocating for players who increase a team's chance of winning, despite how ugly or unimpressive they appear.

{Edit} what RPB said...

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This may surprise you, but often I think highly of his numbers. But his (& guys like Brian Kenny's) overbearance(?) on them makes them and their slanted argument bases cold, joyless and uninteresting. And not always credible.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Those are all good numbers. But a lot of guys have them. There is only one number in all the stats of both Abreu and Gwynn that is ultra-elite, and that is Gwynn's .338 batting average. That's No. 18 all-time. And the only guy in the top 30 who played later than the 30s I believe was Stan Musial whose career ended in the early 60s. That's fame.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Kash, and Don

True, but don't tell me that a guy like Brett Butler wasn't as good of a player as he appeared. Bunts & steals included.

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I like guys that say "fuck the numbers, I'm playing to my strengths".

DeMar DeRozan is having a pretty fun year

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Exactly!

And I hate watching Harden play myself.

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.