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| 2021 HOF Ballot https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=123708 |
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| Author: | HawaiiYou [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 2021 HOF Ballot |
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| Author: | 312player [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
Schilling and Vizquel |
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| Author: | KDdidit [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
Bonds ManRam Clemens Sosa Sheff Vizquel |
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| Author: | good dolphin [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
clemmons and sosa its time unwritten rules don't matter |
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| Author: | 312player [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
Fuck the juicers |
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| Author: | KDdidit [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
312player wrote: Fuck the juicers Then fuck everybody in that era who didn't say shit about them, they're worse. Nobody from the 90s gets in the HoF |
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| Author: | Crick Ramp [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
Who I’d vote for: Bonds Clemens Manny Sosa Schilling Sheffield Andruw Jones Vizquel |
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| Author: | billypootons [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
swisher and victorino |
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| Author: | Chet Coppock's Fur Coat [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
A pile of the Hall of the Extremely Good but not Famous. Plus Curt Schiling, Manny being Manny, and a bunch of steroid guys. Sheffield is a tough one. The various HOF metrics are split on him, especially the ones which measure peak. He's maybe the worst defender RF who actually kept on playing defense instead of DHing. His counting numbers are great a la Harold Baines. But if you look at his 7 best WAR seasons (which include his horrible defense) he's in the ranks of Tony Oliva and Brian Giles. Is it his fault that he played a lot in the NL and couldn't be hid at DH? Even with the Yankees, he played a fair amount in the field. Scott Rolen? He's a better version of Robin Ventura. How many HOF votes did Ventura get? Omar Vizquel? One of the 3 best defensive SS of the expansion era (Smith, Belanger, Vizquel, then a long way to Ripken and Guillen). But offensively he's basically a modern day Dave Conception or Rafael Furcal who played longer. Finally, Curt Schilling and Manny Ramirez. Take the politics and post-baseball life out for a second. Do you think that Zach Greinke is a HOF? If so, then Schilling probably should be as well. Schilling never had an excellent ERA, but he struck out more and had obviously better post-season success. To me, he's this generation's Jack Morris. Manny has been consistently at 22-23% so far, I think this is his year to jump. If he doesn't get to 45% this year, he's never getting in by the voters. He's actually surprisingly similar to Billy Williams, adjusting a little for era. Manny walked more and had more era-influenced power, but he and Billy were both mediocre defenders (Billy's defense with Banks stuck at 1B after his knee injuries is a big reason why they traded Lou Brock, because neither could play RF). As much as I love Billy, he's kinda on the low end of HOF outfielders from the tail end of wider Black acceptance into MLB (say 1953-1963) I won't be upset if Manny gets in, I won't be surprised if he does not. |
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| Author: | tommy [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
KDdidit wrote: 312player wrote: Fuck the juicers Then fuck everybody in that era who didn't say shit about them, they're worse. Nobody from the 90s gets in the HoF Frank Thomas bitched about them all the time |
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| Author: | Crick Ramp [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
Schilling not being in is a joke. If it weren’t for his teammate, he’d have a pair of cy young’s and his playoff resume is incredible |
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| Author: | KDdidit [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
tommy wrote: KDdidit wrote: 312player wrote: Fuck the juicers Then fuck everybody in that era who didn't say shit about them, they're worse. Nobody from the 90s gets in the HoF Frank Thomas bitched about them all the time When you don't name names, it doesn't mean anything. Like when the Sox were going to refuse the test to get mandatory testing instituted and they (correctly) chickened out. |
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| Author: | HawaiiYou [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
Bonds and Clemens were at 60/61 percent last year. Are they going to make such a drastic jump to get 75% this year? I don't think so Schilling may be the only one that gets in this year. If he misses, then nobody is getting in this year. |
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| Author: | Nardi [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
Bonds, Clemens, Schilling, Sheffield. It's my belief, that without juice, Sosa is just an above average player. |
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| Author: | FrankDrebin [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
Schilling Clemens Bonds Manny Rolen Sosa Vizquel Sheffield Future chance: Wagner Helton |
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| Author: | 312player [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
KDdidit wrote: tommy wrote: KDdidit wrote: 312player wrote: Fuck the juicers Then fuck everybody in that era who didn't say shit about them, they're worse. Nobody from the 90s gets in the HoF Frank Thomas bitched about them all the time When you don't name names, it doesn't mean anything. Like when the Sox were going to refuse the test to get mandatory testing instituted and they (correctly) chickened out. Very odd take. Im not blaming silent guys or teammates and friends for not snitching on each other. I will not condone proven juicers being rewarded. Putting that POS Selig in was a joke. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
Mark Buehrle. That's it |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
FavreFan wrote: Mark Buehrle. That's it This guy here gets it
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| Author: | tommy [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
KDdidit wrote: tommy wrote: KDdidit wrote: 312player wrote: Fuck the juicers Then fuck everybody in that era who didn't say shit about them, they're worse. Nobody from the 90s gets in the HoF Frank Thomas bitched about them all the time When you don't name names, it doesn't mean anything. Like when the Sox were going to refuse the test to get mandatory testing instituted and they (correctly) chickened out. Wait....what the Christ? |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
Bonds Clemens Hudson Jones Petite Manny Schilling Sosa |
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| Author: | Hawg Ass [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
tommy wrote: KDdidit wrote: tommy wrote: KDdidit wrote: 312player wrote: Fuck the juicers Then fuck everybody in that era who didn't say shit about them, they're worse. Nobody from the 90s gets in the HoF Frank Thomas bitched about them all the time When you don't name names, it doesn't mean anything. Like when the Sox were going to refuse the test to get mandatory testing instituted and they (correctly) chickened out. Wait....what the Christ? Jesus, no hit curveball |
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| Author: | Regular Reader [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
Bonds, Clemens, Manny and Sheffield. The rest HOVG. |
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| Author: | KDdidit [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
tommy wrote: KDdidit wrote: tommy wrote: KDdidit wrote: 312player wrote: Fuck the juicers Then fuck everybody in that era who didn't say shit about them, they're worse. Nobody from the 90s gets in the HoF Frank Thomas bitched about them all the time When you don't name names, it doesn't mean anything. Like when the Sox were going to refuse the test to get mandatory testing instituted and they (correctly) chickened out. Wait....what the Christ? Which part? In the early 2000s I believe there was some clause in the CBA where if enough players tested positive for steroids (refusing counted as a failure) they would institute league-wide testing. A bunch of Sox were going to refuse so it would get the numbers high enough to hit the threshold until their union said take the test idiots. |
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| Author: | Jaw Breaker [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
Sometimes you feel old and time is flying when you see the names of retired players, but I'm amazed that it's only been five years since Aramis Ramirez, Mark Buehrle, and Barry Zito retired. |
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| Author: | Regular Reader [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
Jaw Breaker wrote: Sometimes you feel old and time is flying when you see the names of retired players, but I'm amazed that it's only been five years since Aramis Ramirez, Mark Buehrle, and Barry Zito retired. Wait until you're old enough to vividly remember the playing careers of the parents of the guys on these lists of nominees. |
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| Author: | BigW72 [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
Nardi wrote: Bonds, Clemens, Schilling, Sheffield. It's my belief, that without juice, Sosa is just an above average player. It's my belief Clemens juiced way more than has been discussed. Honestly, they're going to let these clowns in eventually so I won't lose sleep over them letting them in now...don't really care anymore. Bonds is the only one we know for a fact was a HoFer without the juice. |
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| Author: | 312player [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
BigW72 wrote: Nardi wrote: Bonds, Clemens, Schilling, Sheffield. It's my belief, that without juice, Sosa is just an above average player. It's my belief Clemens juiced way more than has been discussed. Honestly, they're going to let these clowns in eventually so I won't lose sleep over them letting them in now...don't really care anymore. Bonds is the only one we know for a fact was a HoFer without the juice. Yeah. I believe Roidger was juicing in college. |
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| Author: | tommy [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
KDdidit wrote: tommy wrote: KDdidit wrote: tommy wrote: KDdidit wrote: 312player wrote: Fuck the juicers Then fuck everybody in that era who didn't say shit about them, they're worse. Nobody from the 90s gets in the HoF Frank Thomas bitched about them all the time When you don't name names, it doesn't mean anything. Like when the Sox were going to refuse the test to get mandatory testing instituted and they (correctly) chickened out. Wait....what the Christ? Which part? In the early 2000s I believe there was some clause in the CBA where if enough players tested positive for steroids (refusing counted as a failure) they would institute league-wide testing. A bunch of Sox were going to refuse so it would get the numbers high enough to hit the threshold until their union said take the test idiots. Yeah, everyone knows that. I just think your reasoning above was bizarre. Frank should have named names? Strange pathway. The MLB had real pathways to deal with this stuff and they didn't use them. |
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| Author: | Hawg Ass [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
312player wrote: BigW72 wrote: Nardi wrote: Bonds, Clemens, Schilling, Sheffield. It's my belief, that without juice, Sosa is just an above average player. It's my belief Clemens juiced way more than has been discussed. Honestly, they're going to let these clowns in eventually so I won't lose sleep over them letting them in now...don't really care anymore. Bonds is the only one we know for a fact was a HoFer without the juice. Yeah. I believe Roidger was juicing in college. What, do you remember him at all in College, he was nothing in size compared to how he was toward the end of his career. He also wasn't the shit head (although he was and possibly is my favorite pitcher) that blew up so easily in college. Just like Bonds, this started in the big leagues. |
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| Author: | Regular Reader [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2021 HOF Ballot |
Hawg Ass wrote: 312player wrote: BigW72 wrote: Nardi wrote: Bonds, Clemens, Schilling, Sheffield. It's my belief, that without juice, Sosa is just an above average player. It's my belief Clemens juiced way more than has been discussed. Honestly, they're going to let these clowns in eventually so I won't lose sleep over them letting them in now...don't really care anymore. Bonds is the only one we know for a fact was a HoFer without the juice. Yeah. I believe Roidger was juicing in college. What, do you remember him at all in College, he was nothing in size compared to how he was toward the end of his career. He also wasn't the shit head (although he was and possibly is my favorite pitcher) that blew up so easily in college. Just like Bonds, this started in the big leagues. Right around the time he became a shitty teammate in Toronto. |
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