Should the impact really care or see the glove?

Is "impact" supposed to be "umpire" above?

If so, I would say that if the umpire notices the catcher dragging the ball into the strikezone it makes calling the pitch a no brainer. It's a ball. Calling it a strike is just rewarding the defense for subterfuge.

I thought that the "art" of pitch framing was moving the ball back into the strike zone in such a way that the umpire doesn't notice you doing it?

Yeah, autocorrect.

I get it’s a tough job but the point is to see the ball cross the plate. What happens after that should have no bearing on the call.

Rick Dempsey had a little presentation on the 'art' of fooling the umpire. It's probably on youtube or somewhere

JORR's premise is somewhat suspect.

According to Dempsey, JORR's premise is somewhat suspect. You are moving the glove, but you're keeping your arm still and just flicking your wrist with the glove more or less in the strike zone to begin with.

https://youtu.be/v2GliQ_tls0?si=F4e9cjw29jh_rLww

If you really thought it was a strike, why would you need to move the glove at all?

The catcher doesn't think it's a strike, and tries to move his glove in a way that's not detectable by the umpire.

Correct. So if the umpire does notice it, it should be an automatic ball, right? My main point is that if the pitcher's own teammate who has the same basic view as the umpire doesn't think it's a strike, why should the umpire disagree?

The guy moving the glove is trying to cheat, isn't he?

If you accept the premise that there's always some movement, you can't call balls and strikes based solely on movement. If you did, you would be calling pitches right down the middle balls. I think framing works because the umpire can't distinguish normal movement from framing movement. Also, there's a possibility that the best framers have the same movement every time (the ball is always getting pulled to the center of the plate even when it's basically there already) and are not making a conscious attempt to frame, which would make it even harder to detect.

Maybe. But when a pitcher drops a curve right into the zone and freezes the batter you see the catcher hold his glove in place like he's a statue.

pitch-framing is about to become completely irrelevant anyway. We are an eyelash away from automated ball and strike calls, at least on a partial basis. 10 years from now, pitch framing is going to seem quaint and old-fashioned.

I would welcome that change. Framing does nothing for me as a fan. I would rather see them just get the call right.

Manfred on pitch framing:

The last point is something that Manfred touched on yesterday. “I think the players feel that a catcher that frames is part of the art of the game,” Manfred said. “If in fact framing is no longer important, the kind of players that would occupy that position might be different than they are today. You could hypothesize a world where instead of a premium catcher who’s focused on defense, the catching position becomes a more offensive player. That alters people’s careers, so those are real, legitimate concerns that we need to think all the way through before we jump off that bridge.”

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/05/ ... -2025.html

I don't agree with that take.

Yeah, I'd go as far as saying that's a moronic stance. I mean WTF?

...into the strike zone after receiving the pitch, the umpire should automatically call it a ball. In that case it's obvious the catcher thought it was a ball. If he didn't he wouldn't need to attempt to "frame" the pitch. So if he thinks it's a ball, why shouldn't the umpire?

If the ump saw the pitch out of the zone prior to the catcher framing the pitch then the framing shouldn’t matter at all. Isn’t that their job?

Remember when Bernsie thought that bum Cubs catcher was a HOFer because framing.

No. Next question.

If the ump saw the pitch out of the zone prior to the catcher framing the pitch then the framing shouldn’t matter at all. Isn’t that their job?

The catcher’s job is to catch. The catcher doesn’t determine balls and strikes. The umpire determines balls and strikes independent of what the catcher does (if they are doing their job properly).