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| Cardinals Going After Holliday https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=26269 |
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| Author: | RFDC [ Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Cardinals Going After Holliday |
The Cardinals are said to be actively going after Rockies OF Matt Holliday, possibly even including OF Ludwick in the deal. http://www.prosportsdaily.com/comments/ ... 69447.html |
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| Author: | RFDC [ Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cardinals Going After Holliday |
Is Holliday that much better than Ludwick? The Cardinals need pitching help, specifically bullpen help, so not sure why they are thinking about swapping OFers. |
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| Author: | Keyser Soze [ Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cardinals Going After Holliday |
Holliday is far and away the better player. Ludwick has had 1 productive season and is 2 years older than Holliday. The Cards are trying to sell high but I don't see a deal getting done with St Lou. Holliday will be a BoSox next season. |
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| Author: | Mustang Rob [ Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cardinals Going After Holliday |
Keyser Soze wrote: Holliday is far and away the better player. Ludwick has had 1 productive season and is 2 years older than Holliday. The Cards are trying to sell high but I don't see a deal getting done with St Lou. Holliday will be a BoSox next season. The Red Sox are set in the outfield with Bay, JD Drew & Ellsbury. If Theo is talking to the Rox it's most likely about Torrealba to take over for Tek, or Garrett Atkins, available after the emergence of Ian Stewart, and who would be an insurance police in case Lowell is slow to come back from the hip surgery and could give Youk rest at first. |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cardinals Going After Holliday |
RFDC wrote: Is Holliday that much better than Ludwick? Is a t-bone steak that much better than a tuna sandwich? yes. yes it is. |
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| Author: | RFDC [ Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cardinals Going After Holliday |
Keyser Soze wrote: Holliday is far and away the better player. Ludwick has had 1 productive season and is 2 years older than Holliday. The Cards are trying to sell high but I don't see a deal getting done with St Lou. Holliday will be a BoSox next season. I agree Holliday is the better player. I am not sure you can say it is far and away tho, but that really does not matter. I just do not understand why you would swap OF and give up some other prospects in this deal when what you really need is pitching. |
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| Author: | Keyser Soze [ Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cardinals Going After Holliday |
Mustang Rob wrote: Keyser Soze wrote: Holliday is far and away the better player. Ludwick has had 1 productive season and is 2 years older than Holliday. The Cards are trying to sell high but I don't see a deal getting done with St Lou. Holliday will be a BoSox next season. The Red Sox are set in the outfield with Bay, JD Drew & Ellsbury. If Theo is talking to the Rox it's most likely about Torrealba to take over for Tek, or Garrett Atkins, available after the emergence of Ian Stewart, and who would be an insurance police in case Lowell is slow to come back from the hip surgery and could give Youk rest at first. You know Red Sox nation better than I but from an outsider looking in it seems Boston has pitching to burn (especially after they sign Lowe) and a hitter like Holliday doesn't come around that often (didn't Theo try to get him at the deadline?). Bay had a great run last season but Drew is hard to depend on and Holliday/Ortiz could rival the Ramirez/Ortiz days. |
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| Author: | newper [ Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cardinals Going After Holliday |
RFDC wrote: I just do not understand why you would swap OF and give up some other prospects in this deal when what you really need is pitching. Let's not assume that this is the only deal that St. Louis is planning on making all off-season. If they want to swap for an OF upgrade and give up a minor leaguer or pitching suspect in the deal, then that should be fine. There's plenty of time left to upgrade their pitching. |
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| Author: | Mustang Rob [ Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cardinals Going After Holliday |
Keyser Soze wrote: Mustang Rob wrote: Keyser Soze wrote: Holliday is far and away the better player. Ludwick has had 1 productive season and is 2 years older than Holliday. The Cards are trying to sell high but I don't see a deal getting done with St Lou. Holliday will be a BoSox next season. The Red Sox are set in the outfield with Bay, JD Drew & Ellsbury. If Theo is talking to the Rox it's most likely about Torrealba to take over for Tek, or Garrett Atkins, available after the emergence of Ian Stewart, and who would be an insurance police in case Lowell is slow to come back from the hip surgery and could give Youk rest at first. You know Red Sox nation better than I but from an outsider looking in it seems Boston has pitching to burn (especially after they sign Lowe) and a hitter like Holliday doesn't come around that often (didn't Theo try to get him at the deadline?). Bay had a great run last season but Drew is hard to depend on and Holliday/Ortiz could rival the Ramirez/Ortiz days. How quickly we disregard the Coors factor; Holliday's splits: Home 1353ab, 285r, 84hr, 307rbi, .357ba, .423obp, .645slg Away 1303ab, 194r, 44hr, 176rbi, .280ba, .348obp, .455slg Away from Coors he's actually not as good as Bay overall, with career .282ba, .375obp & .516slg |
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| Author: | lipidquadcab [ Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cardinals Going After Holliday |
RFDC wrote: I agree Holliday is the better player. I am not sure you can say it is far and away tho, but that really does not matter. I just do not understand why you would swap OF and give up some other prospects in this deal when what you really need is pitching. I would have to see the prospects included before I made up my mind on this deal...if any pitchers were involved on the Cardinals end, I would say no way... |
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| Author: | Keyser Soze [ Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cardinals Going After Holliday |
You know Red Sox nation better than I but from an outsider looking in it seems Boston has pitching to burn (especially after they sign Lowe) and a hitter like Holliday doesn't come around that often (didn't Theo try to get him at the deadline?). Bay had a great run last season but Drew is hard to depend on and Holliday/Ortiz could rival the Ramirez/Ortiz days.[/quote] How quickly we disregard the Coors factor; Holliday's splits: Home 1353ab, 285r, 84hr, 307rbi, .357ba, .423obp, .645slg Away 1303ab, 194r, 44hr, 176rbi, .280ba, .348obp, .455slg Away from Coors he's actually not as good as Bay overall, with career .282ba, .375obp & .516slg[/quote] Every hitter hits better at home. Those are good road numbers. If you want to see some scary spits look at Garrett Atkins. Don't you think Holliday would put equally good numbers playing 81 games in Fenway? |
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| Author: | tywebb2112 [ Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cardinals Going After Holliday |
As one of the few (only?) STL fans visiting the board, I've got nothing against Ludwick - he hustles and he did produce last year - but he's been mostly injured throughout his career. I'm not sure what else the Cards even have that the Rox would want or need, but Holliday would be nice. Still, it's all moot if they don't seriously address their pitching. I personally am not counting on Carpenter being able to start consistently anytime soon, and if they can get his shoulder figured out I think they ought to consider signing him up for the Kerry Wood closer program to address that glaring problem and putting the ridiculous Isringhausen fixation behind them. And having a lefty (or two) in the pen who can actually throw a strike here and there would be swell, too. I also think they are counting too much on certain starters (Wellemeyer, Lohse) to reproduce career years, but what do I know. Apparently building a new stadium and drawing three million plus for the last however many years isn't translating into spending a few more dollars on market...or even keeping Looper around as a back of the rotation guy. Fortunately I'm not bitter, though I've been accused of some sarcasm here and there. God help STL if Cuban ever gets the Cub... |
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| Author: | lipidquadcab [ Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cardinals Going After Holliday |
tywebb2112 wrote: As one of the few (only?) STL fans visiting the board MY GUY!!! |
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| Author: | Apologist [ Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cardinals Going After Holliday |
Well it's moot now that Holliday has been dealt to the A's apparently... although I am a little concerned about Ludwick as well as management with all these B-level outfielders on the roster. Guys like ludwick who come out of nowhere ave a habit of disappearing just as fast... i'd take another 2-3 good years out of him even if this was a career type season. Maybe Mozeliak is just trying to sell high... |
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| Author: | tywebb2112 [ Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cardinals Going After Holliday |
Apologist wrote: Well it's moot now that Holliday has been dealt to the A's apparently... although I am a little concerned about Ludwick as well as management with all these B-level outfielders on the roster. Guys like ludwick who come out of nowhere ave a habit of disappearing just as fast... i'd take another 2-3 good years out of him even if this was a career type season. Maybe Mozeliak is just trying to sell high... So much for my fascination with Holliday. Can't say I was expecting to lose out to the A's though. I agree that Mozeliak was trying to capitalize on the big year by Ludwick. At the same time, even as I daydreamed about Holliday protecting Pujols in that lineup, I wondered what the GM's thought was going to be for 2010 as far as resigning Holliday, given STL's seemingly limited budget these days.... Oh well...back to reality. Which reminds me - what about the pitching??????? |
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| Author: | Apologist [ Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cardinals Going After Holliday |
Carp- you can forget any plans for him to do anything... they just gave a bucket of money to Lohse, not sure what the rehab status of wainwright is... they don't seem to want Looper back? Wellemeyer is under contract? They need something... maybe not a Derek Lowe or Jake Peavy, but not sure who is out there... not to mention that they don't have an obvious closer... |
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