Thanks, elmhurst SHARK.
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| Calling all CSFMB baseball guru's https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=34201 |
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| Author: | Walt Williams Neck [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Calling all CSFMB baseball guru's |
How can Theriot be given an error on an infield fly rule???????????The batter is out right? |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Calling all CSFMB baseball guru's |
Batter is out, runners advance at thier own risk. They can tag, or if the ball is dropped, they run. The out on the batter is just that, the error comes from having the runners advance a base. Pretty simple, yet not surprised you didn't know this. |
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| Author: | W_Z [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Calling all CSFMB baseball guru's |
Plus one, Frank. |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Calling all CSFMB baseball guru's |
This play is yet another glaring example of why baseball (Hawk is dead on with this) needs a 'team error'. If infield fly is not called, Dye ends up with an RBI single. I'd even argue that the ball that dropped in front of Soriano should not have been a hit |
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| Author: | Keyser Soze [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Calling all CSFMB baseball guru's |
A 'team error' would put WAY too much responsibility on the official scorer and the LAST thing baseball needs is to have a guy like Bob Rosenberg to have more responsibility. |
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| Author: | Walt Williams Neck [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Calling all CSFMB baseball guru's |
Frank Coztansa wrote: Batter is out, runners advance at thier own risk. They can tag, or if the ball is dropped, they run. The out on the batter is just that, the error comes from having the runners advance a base. Pretty simple, yet not surprised you didn't know this. So on a sacrafice fly the runners advance. an outfield will be charged with an error? You can comment also W_Z |
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| Author: | newper [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Calling all CSFMB baseball guru's |
Walt Williams Neck wrote: Frank Coztansa wrote: Batter is out, runners advance at thier own risk. They can tag, or if the ball is dropped, they run. The out on the batter is just that, the error comes from having the runners advance a base. Pretty simple, yet not surprised you didn't know this. So on a sacrafice fly the runners advance. an outfield will be charged with an error? You can comment also W_Z The outfield will be charged with an error if they drop the damn ball... do you not get that part? As a fielder, you are supposed to catch fly balls. If you drop it and any runner advances a base, then that is your fault and it is called an error. Hawk calls them "eras", but they mean the same thing. If you catch the ball, and someone tags and does something, then it isn't your fault. |
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| Author: | W_Z [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Calling all CSFMB baseball guru's |
wasn't necessary to do but you're right, newpz. |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Calling all CSFMB baseball guru's |
Walt Williams Neck wrote: So on a sacrafice fly the runners advance. an outfield will be charged with an error? You can comment also W_Z Are you simple or something? No. If the ball is dropped, then a sac fly is scored and an error on the OF. Likewise, if he makes the catch, airmails the throw in allowing baserunner(s) to advance when they otherwise wouldn't have, its an error. Simpleton Rosenbergs or not, baseball does need a team error. |
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| Author: | W_Z [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Calling all CSFMB baseball guru's |
Frank Coztansa wrote: No. If the ball is dropped, then a sac fly is scored and an error on the OF. Likewise, if he makes the catch, airmails the throw in allowing baserunner(s) to advance when they otherwise wouldn't have, its an error. Simpleton Rosenbergs or not, baseball does need a team error. in b4 "except for the cubs" quip. |
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| Author: | Bucky Chris [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Calling all CSFMB baseball guru's |
The runners aren't allowed to advance until the ball is caught. Had the ball been caught, no runners would have advanced. Since the ball WASN'T caught, runners were able to advance. Had Theriot not dropped the ball, the runners wouldn't have advanced. |
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| Author: | newper [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Calling all CSFMB baseball guru's |
This shit never happens to anyone except for the cubs. |
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| Author: | suckers playground [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Calling all CSFMB baseball guru's |
The idea of a "team error" is pretty brutal if you ask me. The way fielding is currently scored in baseball sucks to high heaven, and to generalize it even further doesn't do anything for me. Check out fielder zone ratings and some other 7th level shit before you petition the Elias Bureau. |
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| Author: | Elmhurst Steve [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Calling all CSFMB baseball guru's |
Frank Coztansa wrote: They can tag, or if the ball is dropped, they run. Not quite right....if the ball is dropped, the runner may choose NOT to advance, as there is no force play on the runner and they may advance only at their own risk. If the fielder drops the ball, but it is within easy reach, the runner would be foolish to try to advance and could elect to stay where he was already. Frank is correct about the error though. As much as it allowed a runner to advance a base (again, at the runners own peril) the extra base taken, is the reason for the error charged. |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Calling all CSFMB baseball guru's |
| Thanks, elmhurst SHARK.
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| Author: | Gloopan Kuratz [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Calling all CSFMB baseball guru's |
Notice that the runner did not have to tag up. He scored because he was already part way down the line. It was good baserunning (believe it was Wise). |
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| Author: | Douchebag [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Calling all CSFMB baseball guru's |
Another thing that perplexed me in the series was the play where Scotty Pods overslid 2nd base on the steal. He was clearly safe, but then was called out after going past the bag. Shouldn't he be awarded a stolen base, then be ruled out by a pick off? There is no way you can credit Soto with throwing somebody out on that play, because Pods wasn't technically caught stealing, so how do you guys think it should be scored? I don't think they gave him credit for the steal. It was a boneheaded move on his part, but I still think he should get the stat. Geovany Mota certainly doesn't deserve the putout. |
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| Author: | Don Tiny [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Calling all CSFMB baseball guru's |
"Team error" is perhaps the single dumbest fucking baseball statistic ever conceived of, even moreso than "GW RBI". |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Calling all CSFMB baseball guru's |
Douchebag wrote: Another thing that perplexed me in the series was the play where Scotty Pods overslid 2nd base on the steal. He was clearly safe, but then was called out after going past the bag. Shouldn't he be awarded a stolen base, then be ruled out by a pick off? There is no way you can credit Soto with throwing somebody out on that play, because Pods wasn't technically caught stealing, so how do you guys think it should be scored? I don't think the they gave him credit for the steal. It was boneheaded on his part, but I still think he should get the stat. Geovany Mota certainly doesn't deserve the putout. Good call. It should have been a stolen base, and then a caught stealing 4 (or 6 depending on who covered the bag) |
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| Author: | Darkside [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Calling all CSFMB baseball guru's |
Frank Coztansa wrote: Douchebag wrote: Another thing that perplexed me in the series was the play where Scotty Pods overslid 2nd base on the steal. He was clearly safe, but then was called out after going past the bag. Shouldn't he be awarded a stolen base, then be ruled out by a pick off? There is no way you can credit Soto with throwing somebody out on that play, because Pods wasn't technically caught stealing, so how do you guys think it should be scored? I don't think the they gave him credit for the steal. It was boneheaded on his part, but I still think he should get the stat. Geovany Mota certainly doesn't deserve the putout. Good call. It should have been a stolen base, and then a caught stealing 4 (or 6 depending on who covered the bag) That's dumb. Maybe if the play was over but it wasn't. The play was still on until Pods called time out and the ump gave him time. He didn't successfully steal the base. He was caught stealing. Nuff. |
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| Author: | Douchebag [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Calling all CSFMB baseball guru's |
Darkside wrote: Frank Coztansa wrote: Douchebag wrote: Another thing that perplexed me in the series was the play where Scotty Pods overslid 2nd base on the steal. He was clearly safe, but then was called out after going past the bag. Shouldn't he be awarded a stolen base, then be ruled out by a pick off? There is no way you can credit Soto with throwing somebody out on that play, because Pods wasn't technically caught stealing, so how do you guys think it should be scored? I don't think the they gave him credit for the steal. It was boneheaded on his part, but I still think he should get the stat. Geovany Mota certainly doesn't deserve the putout. Good call. It should have been a stolen base, and then a caught stealing 4 (or 6 depending on who covered the bag) That's dumb. Maybe if the play was over but it wasn't. The play was still on until Pods called time out and the ump gave him time. He didn't successfully steal the base. He was caught stealing. Nuff. But does Soto get credit for throwing out a runner? I don't think he should. |
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| Author: | Darkside [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Calling all CSFMB baseball guru's |
Douchebag wrote: But does Soto get credit for throwing out a runner? I don't think he should. He did throw the runner out. Who cares how? The runner was a bonehead jackass, but that's not the issue. He was thrown out on the play, which again, was not over until it was over. An outfielder gets an assist when a runner overslides past a base, why shouldn't the catcher get the credit? |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Calling all CSFMB baseball guru's |
No. Pods stole the bag, then came off the bag. Thats a steal, and then a CS for the 2B or SS. Rulebook it. |
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| Author: | Darkside [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Calling all CSFMB baseball guru's |
Frank Coztansa wrote: No. Pods stole the bag, then came off the bag. Thats a steal, and then a CS for the 2B or SS. Rulebook it. No, he did not steal the base. If he did, he'd have been at second. The play was not over until he was tagged out. He did not successfully steal the base, Frank, due to baserunning dumbassery. 150 years of baseball history or Frank's ideas? I'll go with 150 years of baseball history. |
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