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Was Pete Rose That Great
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Author:  good dolphin [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Was Pete Rose That Great
In light of Ichiro getting his 200th hit for the 10th straight year, I began wondering about the all time hits leader. I don't remember him being all that great during my baseball consciousness. I looked into his stats and nothing but the sheer number of hits jumps out at you. He never had an overwhelming amount of hits in any single season. He didn't have an eye popping average in any year. It seems like he was just good for a prolonged sense of time. Still, longevity does not necessarily make a legend, and it seems to be a granted that he is a legend.

So I ask the old farts of the board who saw him play during the prime of his 23 year career, was Rose that great of a baseball player or is he just the 60-80s version of fire and passion?
Author:  Keyser Soze [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
He was the MVP in 1973. 746 doubles ( 30+ 15 times) is awfully impressive. So is the fact that he had 1314 RBI while hitting 'only' 160 home runs. He scored 2165 runs (100 + runs 10 times). 1566 walks and 1143 strike outs. He played in 150+ games 17 times. He also had a 44 game hitting streak (3rd all time). Charlie Hustle was much more than fire and passion.
Author:  spmack [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
Good Dolphin's next threads:

"Was Cy Young That Great?"

"Who was this Henry Aaron that they speak of?"
Author:  jimmypasta [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
Sometimes records get stockpiled because a guy stuck around for X number of years.
He was a "Punch & Judy" hitter with some doubles thrown in for good measure. I think he is a HOF though because his totals were very good to great in many instances. He was also surrounded by some great hitters in his REDS tenure.
Author:  good dolphin [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
spmack wrote:
Good Dolphin's next threads:

"Was Cy Young That Great?"

"Who was this Henry Aaron that they speak of?"


You didn't see him play in his prime. You're just agreeing with conventional wisdom.
Author:  stoneroses86 [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
jimmypasta wrote:
Sometimes records get stockpiled because a guy stuck around for X number of years.
He was a "Punch & Judy" hitter with some doubles thrown in for good measure. I think he is a HOF though because his totals were very good to great in many instances. He was also surrounded by some great hitters in his REDS tenure.


Agreed, Ichiro is a better all around ballplayer than the Prince-Valiant-bowl-cut-hairstyled Pete Rose ever was.

Does anybody know which Hall of Famer sarcastically gave Pete Rose the name "Charlie Hustle?"
Author:  jimmypasta [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
Johnny Bench?
Author:  stoneroses86 [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
jimmypasta wrote:
Johnny Bench?


Negative. The person who is the correct answer might have driven a WHITE FORD.
Author:  Phil McCracken [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
Zolio Versailles
Author:  jimmypasta [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
stoneroses86 wrote:
jimmypasta wrote:
Johnny Bench?


Negative. The person who is the correct answer might have driven a WHITE FORD.



Ahh,I got ya. George Mitterwald?
Author:  jimmypasta [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
Whitey Ford of Course. :lol:
Author:  RFDC [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
This is like asking was spmack a great poster in his prime?

Was Kid overdramatic in his prime?

Of course they were, just like Pete Rose was a great player.
Author:  jimmypasta [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
He was no Ron Santo,that's for sure.

Here is a FUN fact: Pete rose had about 6000 more at bats then Ron Santo BUT had 17 LESS RBI.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/compare.asp
Author:  spmack [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
RFDC wrote:
This is like asking was spmack a great poster in his prime?

I'm still in my prime, buddy.
Author:  jimmypasta [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
No Dallas Cowboy cheerleader pics kind of proves otherwise,Spmack. :?
Author:  RFDC [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
spmack wrote:
RFDC wrote:
This is like asking was spmack a great poster in his prime?

I'm still in my prime, buddy.


This guy agrees with you.
Image
Author:  Walt Williams Neck [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
Yes, an Allstar at 2b,Lf,Rf,3b and 1b, Has more hits than anyone.Why ask a question like this?
Author:  Hatchetman [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
he was a pretty good outfielder. legit HOF cailber. not upper echelon like ruth, mays, mantle, but better than others.
Author:  Hatchetman [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
15th in WAR since 1955:

http://www.baseballprojection.com/war/top300.htm
Author:  johnnyfontane [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
spmack wrote:
Good Dolphin's next threads:

"Was Cy Young That Great?"

"Who was this Henry Aaron that they speak of?"

"Gretzky was a punk!"
Author:  24_Guy [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
I think he was kind of a rich man's Ryan Theriot.
Author:  Elmhurst Steve [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
Walt Williams Neck wrote:
Yes, an Allstar at 2b,Lf,Rf,3b and 1b, Has more hits than anyone.Why ask a question like this?



He wasn't as good as Ichiro in my opinion. Rose was remarkable in his ability to play so many positions at least adequately. But in truth, he was never a truely great fielder at any position even though he won 2 gold gloves as an outfielder. Ichiro has been an exceptional right fielder and was a good Center Fielder too. Look at batting averages and you see Rose averaged .303, while Ichiro has a .331 average. Plus, I have to give Ichiro the edge as a baserunner. Rose got every bit he could out of his ability and deserves to be in the HOF, but one of his greatest assets as a ballplayer, was longevity. He was a very good player, who stayed healthy and was able to play a very long time. One of the things I remember best about him, was how hard he was to strike out. He would foul off pitch after pitch, before the pitcher finally made a mistake and then he would put the ball in play (often for a hit). He made very few unproductive outs with runners on base too. If he didn't get a hit, he almost alwasys would move the runner along. A solid player and a winner.
Author:  NSJ [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
24_Guy wrote:
I think he was kind of a rich man's Ryan Theriot.


Surely you jest.
Author:  Hatchetman [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
their career OPS+ is the same and at their peak, rose's was better. of course rose hung around way too long and dragged the career numbers down somewhat.
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
Rose was a HUGE overachiever.

His natural talent/athletic ability to success ratio would be near the top.
Author:  W_Z [ Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
good dolphin wrote:
You didn't see him play in his prime. You're just agreeing with conventional wisdom.


good xenomorph lexicon 2040 wrote:
Was Ichiro all that great? Who'd he play for, the Mariners? What'd they win?
Author:  Jaw Breaker [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
Quote:
I have to give Ichiro the edge as a baserunner.


Ichiro is a great baserunner and is certainly faster than Rose, but Rose had the highest baseball IQ I've ever seen, especially on the basepaths.
Author:  bigfan [ Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
I agree with GD's perception of Rose as I also saw him at the end of his career and thats what you remember.

I think Rose's utility, hustle, knowledge, etc all contribute to the fact his teams won, which is all that matters.

David Eckstein might not even have the pure talent to be a MLB player but the guy made big plays when on good teams and when you have 9 guys that all get it, your teams win. When you have 9 Sorianos, they dont.

Don't know if they have retro wins shares, but would be cool to see.
Author:  Terry's Peeps [ Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
Walt Williams Neck wrote:
Yes, an Allstar at 2b,Lf,Rf,3b and 1b, Has more hits than anyone.Why ask a question like this?


So, was Mark Grace a great player in the '90s? He had more hits than anyone, so that would mean great right?

It's a fair question to ask, especially for those who didn't see his entire career.
Author:  Jaw Breaker [ Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Pete Rose That Great
Quote:
So, was Mark Grace a great player in the '90s? He had more hits than anyone, so that would mean great right?


I think you'd have to say yes. His OBP and slugging were better in the 90's than Ichiro's were in the 00's.
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