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| Sale or Starlin? https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=70940 |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Sale or Starlin? |
Who would you rather have if you were building a franchise? In this section in the interest of being fair and balanced. |
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| Author: | The Original Kid Cairo [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
Sale. Higher ceiling. |
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| Author: | Hank Scorpio [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
Castro but only because of injury concerns. Sale is potentially a #1 starter with great stuff. |
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| Author: | Northside_Dan [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
The Original Kid Cairo wrote: Sale. Higher ceiling. Their ceilings are both perennial all-stars. Starting pitching is obviously the most valuable thing you can have. Too many injury scares and worries already with Sale for me. Unbiased, between the two I'd take Starlin. |
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| Author: | Hatchetman [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
sale. the logic being a player is only worth anything before the later arbitration free agency years. its a gamble his arm doesn't fall off before then. |
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| Author: | Urlacher's missing neck [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
Starlin Pitching can come and go with a quickness but an extremely young player that can get a few hundred hits a year could produce for 15 years. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
immessedup17 wrote: Starlin Castro's numbers in his first three years are nearly identical to Derek Jeter. Derek Jeter is a first ballot Hall of Famer. Yeah, and not because of his numbers. |
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| Author: | Northside_Dan [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
FavreFan wrote: immessedup17 wrote: Starlin Castro's numbers in his first three years are nearly identical to Derek Jeter. Derek Jeter is a first ballot Hall of Famer. Yeah, and not because of his numbers. Wait, what? |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
Northside_Dan wrote: FavreFan wrote: immessedup17 wrote: Starlin Castro's numbers in his first three years are nearly identical to Derek Jeter. Derek Jeter is a first ballot Hall of Famer. Yeah, and not because of his numbers. Wait, what? Correct me if I'm wrong but I've always heard his numbers are HOF worthy, but certainly not first ballot HOF lock worthy. The rings and "intangibles"(sportswriters love to fellate him) would bump him to first ballot? Is that wrong? |
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| Author: | Northside_Dan [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
FavreFan wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but I've always heard his numbers are HOF worthy, but certainly not first ballot HOF lock worthy. The rings and "intangibles"(sportswriters love to fellate him) would bump him to first ballot? Is that wrong? No, that's fine. I thought for a second you were saying his numbers weren't HOF worthy. His numbers are what allow him to be the starting SS on the Yankees which gets him to the postseason every year which allows him to have those 'intangible's and be 'clutch' If he isn't a Yankee, he's not a first ballot HOF'er |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
Northside_Dan wrote: FavreFan wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but I've always heard his numbers are HOF worthy, but certainly not first ballot HOF lock worthy. The rings and "intangibles"(sportswriters love to fellate him) would bump him to first ballot? Is that wrong? No, that's fine. I thought for a second you were saying his numbers weren't HOF worthy. His numbers are what allow him to be the starting SS on the Yankees which gets him to the postseason every year which allows him to have those 'intangible's and be 'clutch' If he isn't a Yankee, he's not a first ballot HOF'er that was my only point. I'm not fucking kidding you IMU. Sorry. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
immessedup17 wrote: Starlin Castro's numbers in his first three years are nearly identical to Derek Jeter. Derek Jeter is a first ballot Hall of Famer. So you think Castro will be a first ballot Hall of Famer? The Cubs are loaded with them! Theo better win. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
Northside_Dan wrote: FavreFan wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but I've always heard his numbers are HOF worthy, but certainly not first ballot HOF lock worthy. The rings and "intangibles"(sportswriters love to fellate him) would bump him to first ballot? Is that wrong? No, that's fine. I thought for a second you were saying his numbers weren't HOF worthy. His numbers are what allow him to be the starting SS on the Yankees which gets him to the postseason every year which allows him to have those 'intangible's and be 'clutch' If he isn't a Yankee, he's not a first ballot HOF'er In fairness to Jeter he played a major role in getting those Yankee teams to where they got. It's not like he's Charlie Silvera. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
immessedup17 wrote: He is on pace stats-wise. Alejandro DeAza is on a Hall of Fame pace too. I'll be betting against him. |
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| Author: | Northside_Dan [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
immessedup17 wrote: Bullshit, I just listed his stats. Similarity Scores: Alomar -Not 1st ballot Biggio - Roids, doesn't count Gehringer - Not 1st ballot Larkin -Not 1st Ballot Frisch - can't find info Molitor -1st Year Damon - Not a HOF'er Yount -1st Ballot Whitaker - Not a HOF'er Ted Simmons - Not a HOF'er If he wasn't a Yankee, he probably isn't a first ballot |
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| Author: | Northside_Dan [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: In fairness to Jeter he played a major role in getting those Yankee teams to where they got. It's not like he's Charlie Silvera. Right. Jeter and the Yankees were a perfect match as he was often the glue that made it all work. If he was a Mariner for 15 years he's just a really great shortstop and a eventual HOF'er |
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| Author: | sjboyd0137 [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
Can someone give me a comparison of Jeter's 1st 3 years of defensive stats vs Castro? I don't really care about offense if my shortstop doesn't know how many outs there are. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
Northside_Dan wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: In fairness to Jeter he played a major role in getting those Yankee teams to where they got. It's not like he's Charlie Silvera. Right. Jeter and the Yankees were a perfect match as he was often the glue that made it all work. If he was a Mariner for 15 years he's just a really great shortstop and a eventual HOF'er This is the kind of thing that makes baseball discussion great and we'll never know the answer, but I'd guess the Mariners may have won a World Series or two had they had Jeter instead of A-Rod. |
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| Author: | Northside_Dan [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
sjboyd0137 wrote: Can someone give me a comparison of Jeter's 1st 3 years of defensive stats vs Castro? I don't really care about offense if my shortstop doesn't know how many outs there are. Sure, but it's defensive stats. Outside of FP%/Errors, the validness is up for a lot of debate. Starlin in 2010 had a FP of 95%, and UZR/150 of -3 2011 had a FP of .961 and UZR/150 of -8.8 2012 has a FB of .964 and UZR/150 of 12.9 For Jeter the 'advanced' stats weren't around in mid 90's. In 96 he had a FP of .969, .975 in '97 and .986 in 1998 which was his best even. He's been around 97% every year since except '09. His UZR/150 since 2002 ranges as low as -17.9 and high as 8. He's a -32.8 this year so far. |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
As much as Castro infuriates me, you ALWAYS take the position player. Way more effect overall |
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| Author: | Big Chicagoan [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
Northside_Dan wrote: immessedup17 wrote: Bullshit, I just listed his stats. Similarity Scores: Alomar -Not 1st ballot Biggio - Roids, doesn't count Gehringer - Not 1st ballot Larkin -Not 1st Ballot Frisch - can't find info Molitor -1st Year Damon - Not a HOF'er Yount -1st Ballot Whitaker - Not a HOF'er Ted Simmons - Not a HOF'er If he wasn't a Yankee, he probably isn't a first ballot That one's news to me. Sure you aren't thinking of Bagwell? |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
sjboyd0137 wrote: Can someone give me a comparison of Jeter's 1st 3 years of defensive stats vs Castro? I don't really care about offense if my shortstop doesn't know how many outs there are. Offense is literally 20 times as important as fielding |
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| Author: | sinicalypse [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
why is this even a thread? sale without a doubt. how hard is it to find a kid who hits .300 doesn't take walks and have one foot in the club every night? a-ram for the next generation! |
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| Author: | Keyser Soze [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
It would be a better argument if Castro were able to stay a shortstop. |
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| Author: | Douchebag [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
Northside_Dan wrote: If he isn't a Yankee, he's not a first ballot HOF'er He's going to end with 3,500+ hits and maybe break Henderson's all time runs record. That's a first ballot HOF'er for sure. |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
I cant believe so many people are taking a guy who plays every 5 days |
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| Author: | spanky [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
rogers park bryan wrote: I cant believe so many people are taking a guy who plays every 5 days Less than every 5 actually. He's missing this series. |
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| Author: | sinicalypse [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
i love how my completely correct analysis was just skipped over. that's cool i'll rest on my laurels of bring right. * 40 of 45 and back to mixing superjungle * |
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| Author: | sjboyd0137 [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
rogers park bryan wrote: sjboyd0137 wrote: Can someone give me a comparison of Jeter's 1st 3 years of defensive stats vs Castro? I don't really care about offense if my shortstop doesn't know how many outs there are. Offense is literally 20 times as important as fielding I disagree when it comes to shortstop, but ok...cool. |
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| Author: | sinicalypse [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sale or Starlin? |
sjboyd0137 wrote: I disagree when it comes to shortstop, but ok...cool. he's a terrible shortstop! he has the tools but he's one foot in the club.... 25-30/+ errors there last year right? |
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