Baseball was more fun before all this steroid/hgh/hormone controversy shit.
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| The steroid era -looking again at HR's https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=76223 |
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| Author: | jimmypasta [ Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
If everybody was taking them,why is this list just dominated by 2 men? Even with steroids,you still have to hit the ball and be very skilled at it. I wouldn't vote them in either but maybe in 20/30 years,opinions will change Most HR's in a season. Suspected cheaters in RED. HR Player/Team Year 73 Barry Bonds, San Francisco (N.L.) 2001 70 Mark McGwire, St. Louis (N.L.) 1998 66 Sammy Sosa, Chicago (N.L.) 1998 65 Mark McGwire, St. Louis (N.L.) 1999 64 Sammy Sosa, Chicago (N.L.) 2001 63 Sammy Sosa, Chicago (N.L.) 1999 61 Roger Maris, New York (A.L.) 1961 60 Babe Ruth, New York (A.L.) 1927 59 Babe Ruth, New York (A.L.) 1921 58 Jimmie Foxx, Philadelphia (A.L.) 1932 58 Hank Greenberg, Detroit (A.L.)1938 58 Mark McGwire, Oakland (A.L.), St. Louis (N.L.) 1997 58 Ryan Howard, Philadelphia (N.L.) 2006 57 Luis Gonzalez. Arizona (N.L.) 2001 57 Alex Rodriguez, Texas (A.L.) 2002 56 Hack Wilson, Chicago (N.L.) 1930 Read more: Most Home Runs in One Season—45 or More — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ipsa/a0113265 ... z2HbuZ5JWl |
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| Author: | denisdman [ Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
If they don't help, then why do people take them? |
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| Author: | jimmypasta [ Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
I will always wonder if Sosa didn't take them,what kind of hitter he would have been. I think a 10 year average of .280/30 HR's/110RBI is not out of the question. |
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| Author: | Big Chicagoan [ Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
jimmypasta wrote: I will always wonder if Sosa didn't take them,what kind of hitter he would have been. I think a 10 year average of .280/30 HR's/110RBI is not out of the question. I always wonder why people say Sosa isn't a HOFer even if you allow people who used roids into the HOF. His roid numbers are off the charts. |
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| Author: | Colonel Angus [ Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
Baseball was more fun before all this steroid/hgh/hormone controversy shit.
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| Author: | Crystal Lake Hoffy [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
Steriods don't directly make you hit home runs. The primary reasons for taking them were to recover quickly from injury, to bulk up fast and to lengthen their careers and potential contracts. Remember, money is always involved in these things. There was a lot of money to be made from 10-20 million dollar contracts for guys in their late 30s. The home run guys were freaks. McGwire and Bonds had incredibly fast swing, which had much more to do with the home run totals. The roids just put them over a threshold. Here is another interesting take. Weren't the pitchers also on steriods in this era, so in some ways, doesn't cheating in some ways cancel out cheating? |
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| Author: | 312player [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
Sosa pissed hot, it is a fact..no allegation. If Sosa was clean he hits 250 with 120 career homers....bonds is the only cheat I would put in. |
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| Author: | Jaw Breaker [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
Quote: I always wonder why people say Sosa isn't a HOFer even if you allow people who used roids into the HOF Cork. |
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| Author: | KDdidit [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
312player wrote: Sosa pissed hot, it is a fact..no allegation. If Sosa was clean he hits 250 with 120 career homers....bonds is the only cheat I would put in. It's not a fact, he's supposedly on the leaked NYT list, but that's no fact. Now I'm sure he did, but again, not a fact. |
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| Author: | Big Chicagoan [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
KDdidit wrote: 312player wrote: Sosa pissed hot, it is a fact..no allegation. If Sosa was clean he hits 250 with 120 career homers....bonds is the only cheat I would put in. It's not a fact, he's supposedly on the leaked NYT list, but that's no fact. Now I'm sure he did, but again, not a fact. If you put all the cheaters in, then you have to put Sosa in. |
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| Author: | Phil McCracken [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
KDdidit wrote: 312player wrote: Sosa pissed hot, it is a fact..no allegation. If Sosa was clean he hits 250 with 120 career homers....bonds is the only cheat I would put in. It's not a fact, he's supposedly on the leaked NYT list, but that's no fact. Now I'm sure he did, but again, not a fact. The only fact is that he is white now |
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| Author: | Zippy-The-Pinhead [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
KDdidit wrote: 312player wrote: Sosa pissed hot, it is a fact..no allegation. If Sosa was clean he hits 250 with 120 career homers....bonds is the only cheat I would put in. It's not a fact, he's supposedly on the leaked NYT list, but that's no fact. Now I'm sure he did, but again, not a fact. |
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| Author: | Mr. Hernandez [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
There is no hard evidence on Sammy though. No witnesses and no confirmed failed drug tests. Ive suspected him of juicing since the mid 90s but like i said theres no proof so the voters have no right no not vote him in. His numbers are 1st ballot 100% of the votes worthy I say just go about the voting as theyve always have. The old guys where cheats too and they are in. I dont see any difference here. |
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| Author: | Big Chicagoan [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
Mr. Hernandez wrote: There is no hard evidence on Sammy though. No witnesses and no confirmed failed drug tests. Ive suspected him of juicing since the mid 90s but like i said theres no proof so the voters have no right no not vote him in. His numbers are 1st ballot 100% of the votes worthy I say just go about the voting as theyve always have. The old guys where cheats too and they are in. I dont see any difference here. No one in history has ever received 100% of the votes. |
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| Author: | KDdidit [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote: KDdidit wrote: 312player wrote: Sosa pissed hot, it is a fact..no allegation. If Sosa was clean he hits 250 with 120 career homers....bonds is the only cheat I would put in. It's not a fact, he's supposedly on the leaked NYT list, but that's no fact. Now I'm sure he did, but again, not a fact. Yes, according to the NYT there's a list, and he's on it. That's certainly not proof of anything. Again, he did roids and all, but the NYT thing isn't a smoking gun or anything. |
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| Author: | Mr. Hernandez [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
Big Chicagoan wrote: Mr. Hernandez wrote: There is no hard evidence on Sammy though. No witnesses and no confirmed failed drug tests. Ive suspected him of juicing since the mid 90s but like i said theres no proof so the voters have no right no not vote him in. His numbers are 1st ballot 100% of the votes worthy I say just go about the voting as theyve always have. The old guys where cheats too and they are in. I dont see any difference here. No one in history has ever received 100% of the votes. There are a lot of players who deserve 100% of the votes. The writers hold no weight to determine things like this imo |
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| Author: | Rod [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
Mr. Hernandez wrote: Big Chicagoan wrote: Mr. Hernandez wrote: There is no hard evidence on Sammy though. No witnesses and no confirmed failed drug tests. Ive suspected him of juicing since the mid 90s but like i said theres no proof so the voters have no right no not vote him in. His numbers are 1st ballot 100% of the votes worthy I say just go about the voting as theyve always have. The old guys where cheats too and they are in. I dont see any difference here. No one in history has ever received 100% of the votes. There are a lot of players who deserve 100% of the votes. The writers hold no weight to determine things like this imo Except the writers hold all the weight to determine who gets in. It's been that way forever. |
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| Author: | 312player [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
Comparing greenies to steroids or high is like comparing a speeding ticket to rape...greenies. are pretty much a five hour energy drink sold at a gas station ...hgh and Anabolic steroids make you bigger, faster n stronger. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
312player wrote: Comparing greenies to steroids or high is like comparing a speeding ticket to rape...greenies. are pretty much a five hour energy drink sold at a gas station ...hgh and Anabolic steroids make you bigger, faster n stronger. I find that attacking the players of the sixties and seventies for amphetamine use is usually done by younger guys who feel betrayed by the rampant drug use of their own heroes. I think intellectually everyone knows that popping an upper isn't the same thing as having Victor Conte design a specialty cocktail that will cause you to put on thirty pounds of rock hard muscle and recover in one-tenth the normal time. But look, it is what it is. I don't think the older players were morally superior. If they had had access to a Victor Conte, they would have used him back then too. |
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| Author: | Big Chicagoan [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
I see the ads on tv a lot now, but I see a time in the near future where most men will take hgh or testosterone to extend their healthy years. Look at Stallone, for Christ's sake, the guy is a beast and 70 years old. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
Big Chicagoan wrote: I see the ads on tv a lot now, but I see a time in the near future where most men will take hgh or testosterone to extend their healthy years. Look at Stallone, for Christ's sake, the guy is a beast and 70 years old. I just don't get the moralizing. Rick Telander acts like a guy who took steroids is just short of being Hitler. Is Lasik a performance enhancer? Because it sure isn't natural. Wasn't Insulin a performance enhancer for Santo? The natural Santo probably couldn't have played in the big leagues just like the natural you and me couldn't. |
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| Author: | Big Chicagoan [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Big Chicagoan wrote: I see the ads on tv a lot now, but I see a time in the near future where most men will take hgh or testosterone to extend their healthy years. Look at Stallone, for Christ's sake, the guy is a beast and 70 years old. I just don't get the moralizing. Rick Telander acts like a guy who took steroids is just short of being Hitler. Is Lasik a performance enhancer? Because it sure isn't natural. Wasn't Insulin a performance enhancer for Santo? The natural Santo probably couldn't have played in the big leagues just like the natural you and me couldn't. Well, steroid are illegal in the US. The others aren't. It could also be argued that Lasik and Insulin only help someone get back to "normal" level and not exceed it. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
Big Chicagoan wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Big Chicagoan wrote: I see the ads on tv a lot now, but I see a time in the near future where most men will take hgh or testosterone to extend their healthy years. Look at Stallone, for Christ's sake, the guy is a beast and 70 years old. I just don't get the moralizing. Rick Telander acts like a guy who took steroids is just short of being Hitler. Is Lasik a performance enhancer? Because it sure isn't natural. Wasn't Insulin a performance enhancer for Santo? The natural Santo probably couldn't have played in the big leagues just like the natural you and me couldn't. Well, steroid are illegal in the US. The others aren't. It could also be argued that Lasik and Insulin only help someone get back to "normal" level and not exceed it. Yeah, I understand that argument. But we're starting to parse what "performance enhancing" means. Santo in his natural state may not have been a big leaguer. Same for a guy who gets Lasik surgery. And as for the legality of steroids, I really don't think that is the issue here, since there were plenty of doctors willing to prescribe them legally for major league players. |
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| Author: | Big Chicagoan [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Big Chicagoan wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Big Chicagoan wrote: I see the ads on tv a lot now, but I see a time in the near future where most men will take hgh or testosterone to extend their healthy years. Look at Stallone, for Christ's sake, the guy is a beast and 70 years old. I just don't get the moralizing. Rick Telander acts like a guy who took steroids is just short of being Hitler. Is Lasik a performance enhancer? Because it sure isn't natural. Wasn't Insulin a performance enhancer for Santo? The natural Santo probably couldn't have played in the big leagues just like the natural you and me couldn't. Well, steroid are illegal in the US. The others aren't. It could also be argued that Lasik and Insulin only help someone get back to "normal" level and not exceed it. Yeah, I understand that argument. But we're starting to parse what "performance enhancing" means. Santo in his natural state may not have been a big leaguer. Same for a guy who gets Lasik surgery. And as for the legality of steroids, I really don't think that is the issue here, since there were plenty of doctors willing to prescribe them legally for major league players. I get what you are saying, but there are plenty of doctors who will prescribe anything to famous people when they aren't medically necessary. (See Michael Jackson and Anna Nicole Smith) |
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| Author: | Rod [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
Big Chicagoan wrote: I get what you are saying, but there are plenty of doctors who will prescribe anything to famous people when they aren't medically necessary. (See Michael Jackson and Anna Nicole Smith) I just think the demonization of these guys is a little over the top. Sammy Sosa didn't rape anyone. He didn't kill anyone. He didn't even drive drunk. He just took some shit that made him hit an extra homerun each week. I can't work up much righteous anger over that. To me the worst thing about the steroid era is that it opens the door for certain guys- usually my age or older- to use this "cheating" as a platform to promote scumbags like Pete Rose and Joe Jackson. These are guys who tanked ballgames. Unforgivable and far different than a guy risking his own long-term health to help himself make more money while also helping his team win. There isn't one high class racehorse that isn't "cheating" under the same definition we use for the steroid guys. They all run with drugs that are banned on race day. They could not compete otherwise. It isn't the same thing as a guy taking a favorite and giving him no chance to win in order to cash a bet. |
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| Author: | Big Chicagoan [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
I don't think they should be demonized. I think the public outrage is that society holds athletes in high regard as role models and sports as great activities for kids. If the stars are cheaters, no matter what you think about whether its really cheating or not, it puts out a bad example all the way around. |
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| Author: | 312player [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
Agree Joe on why younger generations of fans try to rationalize the greenies / roids. Baseball stats once were important n a tool to compare players from one generation to the next, that was taken away by these turds....demonize? Dunno bout that..but no way should they be rewarded by getting in the hof. Lasik is no advantage over eye glasses, bad analogy...insulin keeps diabetics alive..another bad analogy. Most of the guys made tens of millions more than they should have, that is why I don't fault them...but I don't have to like it or accept it. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The steroid era -looking again at HR's |
312player wrote: insulin keeps diabetics alive..another bad analogy. Nope. Great analogy. Insulin kept Santo in the big leagues just like steroids kept Clemens in the big leagues. Why do you want Clemens' career to end when it didn't have to but you think Ronnie should be allowed to used drugs so he can play? |
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