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Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=76679 |
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Author: | Scorehead [ Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:12 am ] |
Post subject: | Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
Its about time. Somewhere Harry is happy. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/rule-change-third-first-fake-pickoff-move-now-033809715--mlb.html Rule Change! Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk By Mark Townsend | Big League Stew – Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:38 PM EST (AP)Like a professional wrestler hitting his opponent with brass knuckles behind the referee‘s back, the surest way to draw an angry reaction from baseball fans is to break out the old fake-to-third, throw-to-first pickoff move. Of course, the difference is the pitcher’s intent isn’t to draw a reaction from the crowd. Often times there is real sound strategy involved, whether it's attempting to dupe a base runner into making a mistake, a hitter into showing his hand too early, or even just buying some extra time to collect his thoughts or allow a reliever to warm up. It really has served a purpose other than to annoy. But I guess that doesn’t change the fact the play rarely worked — you can count the successful attempts every season on one hand — and often killed the flow of a game. And that’s not to mention I've always felt the move fit the technical description of a balk since deception was involved. It was with all of those factors in mind that Major League Baseball began a discussion to eliminate the "pickoff attempt" last spring. Now comes word from the New York Times' Tyler Kepner that the change is official, and beginning this season any such attempt to fake a move toward third base will result in a balk. Under a rule change imposed by Major League Baseball for this season, pitchers can no longer fake a pickoff throw to third base. Pitchers who did this would almost always follow by wheeling and firing to first — or to second, if a duped runner had taken off in that direction. No more. The play is now part of baseball’s graveyard, like the bullpen cart, the Montreal Expos, pullover jerseys and World Series games in the sunshine. It simply did not work often enough to be worth the wasted time. It may not work enough to be worth the wasted time, but as former major leaguer Jeff Nelson alludes to in the same article, it definitely kept baserunners on their toes and will now work in their favor as they no longer have to worry about the embarrassment of being tricked by the move. “The managers say it’s all about speeding up the game,” said Nelson, now a contributor to MLB.com. “I think now, the runner at first might get a little bit of an advantage. All it’s used for is to keep the runner at first close. I might have done it 100 times and gotten two guys on it.” Ah, yes, he also mentions speeding up the game. That's another factor. But our own Kevin Kaduk made a pretty good point about that when this discussion first came up eight months ago. Also, if it's something that's designed to speed up the game, it seems like a token move, at best. After all, if Bruce Chen can still throw 1o regular pickoff attempts in one at-bat, what good does getting rid of an occasional gimmick pickoff attempt do? (Outside of giving us the pleasure of yelling "BALK!" with the previously misinformed, of course?) We'll probably never know what the true reason for the change is. I think a lot of people would actually accept it if they just said the play was maddening, but it's more than likely a combination of all the aforementioned factors. And perhaps it's even done to make it look like they're working on something while they allow issues such as instant replay to hang in the wind. Only those who approved the change know for sure. |
Author: | Stretch [ Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:41 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
Author: | jimmypasta [ Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:13 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
Should have done this during Rick Sutcliffe's day. The big redhead's favorite move,which of course drove Harry crazy. |
Author: | Douchebag [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:49 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
Pointless rule change. Can someone fake to first now, and go to third instead? |
Author: | RFDC [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:52 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
All about speeding up the game? Yeah right. Stopping the few times that play is used is not going to speed up the game at all. If they really want to speed up the game they need to stop every batter from going through a 5 min routine of playing with their batting gloves and adjusting Mr Johnson in between every pitch. I picked several people off in high school with this move. |
Author: | Hatchetman [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:56 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
Harry: "That move went out with high-buttoned shoes." |
Author: | Douchebag [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:56 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
immessedup17 wrote: And it ALMOST NEVER WORKS in the MLB. It was pointless. Also, it was all about deception, which is the very thing the balk rule is meant to prevent. Good riddance. If it works maybe once a season, it's not pointless. Why not just eliminate all pickoff moves? They never work. There's about 3 pitchers in MLB with good pickoff moves, the rest of the guys are just playing catch with the first baseman. |
Author: | Hawg Ass [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:57 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
RFDC wrote: All about speeding up the game? Yeah right. Stopping the few times that play is used is not going to speed up the game at all. If they really want to speed up the game they need to stop every batter from going through a 5 min routine of playing with their batting gloves and adjusting Mr Johnson in between every pitch. I picked several people off in high school with this move. Hawg Jr. picked off 4 guys with this move last year, he was pissed when I informed him of this yesterday. |
Author: | Douchebag [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:03 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
immessedup17 wrote: Douchebag wrote: immessedup17 wrote: And it ALMOST NEVER WORKS in the MLB. It was pointless. Also, it was all about deception, which is the very thing the balk rule is meant to prevent. Good riddance. If it works maybe once a season, it's not pointless. Why not just eliminate all pickoff moves? They never work. There's about 3 pitchers in MLB with good pickoff moves, the rest of the guys are just playing catch with the first baseman. Pickoff moves keep the runner close, whether the pickoff succeeds or not. It involves no deception. And they work, and it is within the rules. The third to first has always been within the definition of what a balk was. There was no reason for it to still be around. If you step off the mound, you can throw anywhere. It's not a balk. |
Author: | RFDC [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:04 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
I don't necessarily care if they get rid of the move, but just don't pretend it is about speeding up the game. |
Author: | Douchebag [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:08 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
This new rule states nothing about faking to first, and throwing to third. Pitchers will just reverse the fake. Nothing will change. |
Author: | RFDC [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:09 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
You have never been able to fake to first. |
Author: | Douchebag [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:10 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
RFDC wrote: You have never been able to fake to first. Guys step off the rubber, and never throw the ball to first alot of times. |
Author: | Hawg Ass [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:55 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
immessedup17 wrote: Douchebag wrote: immessedup17 wrote: And it ALMOST NEVER WORKS in the MLB. It was pointless. Also, it was all about deception, which is the very thing the balk rule is meant to prevent. Good riddance. If it works maybe once a season, it's not pointless. Why not just eliminate all pickoff moves? They never work. There's about 3 pitchers in MLB with good pickoff moves, the rest of the guys are just playing catch with the first baseman. Pickoff moves keep the runner close, whether the pickoff succeeds or not. It involves no deception. And they work, and it is within the rules. The third to first has always been within the definition of what a balk was. There was no reason for it to still be around. So a left handed pitcher uses no deception in trying to pick a runner off of 1st, you are smarter than that. |
Author: | Terry's Peeps [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:57 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
A dumbass rule change. |
Author: | KDdidit [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:01 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
They're just doing it to placate the dumbass fans who yell "BALK!" every time someone tries it. |
Author: | Big Chicagoan [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:02 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
I'm surprised no one has started some sort of ass-to-mouth parody thread. |
Author: | Hawg Ass [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:38 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
No |
Author: | Douchebag [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:40 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
When all arguments fail, insult grammar and punctuation usage. |
Author: | Hawg Ass [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:41 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
Douchebag wrote: When all arguments fail, insult grammar and punctuation usage. #truth |
Author: | Hawg Ass [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:49 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
immessedup17 wrote: I thought the exclamation point would show I meant the comment in a light-hearted fashion. You ass-munching bitchtit! A left-handed pitcher's pick-off is still not "deceiving" the runner. Keeping a runner guessing != deceit. Why do they hold their leg up at times, is that not trying to deceive the runner? I sure hope I used the correct sentence structure. |
Author: | KDdidit [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:53 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
Hey MLB, if your rules on what's a balk are a page long, it's far too complicated. Quote: 8.05
If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when -- (a) The pitcher, while touching his plate, makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch and fails to make such delivery; Rule 8.05(a) Comment: If a lefthanded or righthanded pitcher swings his free foot past the back edge of the pitchers rubber, he is required to pitch to the batter except to throw to second base on a pick-off-play. (b) The pitcher, while touching his plate, feints a throw to first base and fails to complete the throw; (c) The pitcher, while touching his plate, fails to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base; Rule 8.05(c) Comment: Requires the pitcher, while touching his plate, to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base. If a pitcher turns or spins off of his free foot without actually stepping or if he turns his body and throws before stepping, it is a balk. A pitcher is to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base but does not require him to throw (except to first base only) because he steps. It is possible, with runners on first and third, for the pitcher to step toward third and not throw, merely to bluff the runner back to third; then seeing the runner on first start for second, turn and step toward and throw to first base. This is legal. However, if, with runners on first and third, the pitcher, while in contact with the rubber, steps toward third and then immediately and in practically the same motion wheels and throws to first base, it is obviously an attempt to deceive the runner at first base, and in such a move it is practically impossible to step directly toward first base before the throw to first base, and such a move shall be called a balk. Of course, if the pitcher steps off the rubber and then makes such a move, it is not a balk. (d) The pitcher, while touching his plate, throws, or feints a throw to an unoccupied base, except for the purpose of making a play; (e) The pitcher makes an illegal pitch; Rule 8.05(e) Comment: A quick pitch is an illegal pitch. Umpires will judge a quick pitch as one delivered before the batter is reasonably set in the batters box. With runners on base the penalty is a balk; with no runners on base, it is a ball. The quick pitch is dangerous and should not be permitted. (f) The pitcher delivers the ball to the batter while he is not facing the batter; (g) The pitcher makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch while he is not touching the pitchers plate; (h) The pitcher unnecessarily delays the game; Rule 8.05(h) Comment: Rule 8.05(h) shall not apply when a warning is given pursuant to Rule 8.02(c) (which prohibits intentional delay of a game by throwing to fielders not in an attempt to put a runner out). If a pitcher is ejected pursuant to Rule 8.02(c) for continuing to delay the game, the penalty in Rule 8.05(h) shall also apply. Rule 8.04 (which sets a time limit for a pitcher to deliver the ball when the bases are unoccupied) applies only when there are no runners on base. (i) The pitcher, without having the ball, stands on or astride the pitchers plate or while off the plate, he feints a pitch; (j) The pitcher, after coming to a legal pitching position, removes one hand from the ball other than in an actual pitch, or in throwing to a base; (k) The pitcher, while touching his plate, accidentally or intentionally drops the ball; (l) The pitcher, while giving an intentional base on balls, pitches when the catcher is not in the catchers box; (m)The pitcher delivers the pitch from Set Position without coming to a stop. PENALTY: The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk. APPROVED RULING: In cases where a pitcher balks and throws wild, either to a base or to home plate, a runner or runners may advance beyond the base to which he is entitled at his own risk. APPROVED RULING: A runner who misses the first base to which he is advancing and who is called out on appeal shall be considered as having advanced one base for the purpose of this rule. Rule 8.05 Comment: Umpires should bear in mind that the purpose of the balk rule is to prevent the pitcher from deliberately deceiving the base runner. If there is doubt in the umpires mind, the intent of the pitcher should govern. However, certain specifics should be borne in mind: (a) Straddling the pitchers rubber without the ball is to be interpreted as intent to deceive and ruled a balk. (b) With a runner on first base the pitcher may make a complete turn, without hesitating toward first, and throw to second. This is not to be interpreted as throwing to an unoccupied base. |
Author: | Hawg Ass [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:54 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
immessedup17 wrote: Needs more semicolon. A leg kick is standard when pitching. Ask your son. Stepping towards third when trying to pick off the guy at first is not a standard move. That first action is SOLELY to deceive the runner. It has no other function at all. There is deceit all thru baseball, but I am not going to sit here and argue about it all day. |
Author: | Terry's Peeps [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:54 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
Hawg Ass wrote: immessedup17 wrote: Needs more semicolon. A leg kick is standard when pitching. Ask your son. Stepping towards third when trying to pick off the guy at first is not a standard move. That first action is SOLELY to deceive the runner. It has no other function at all. There is deceit all thru baseball, but I am not going to sit here and argue about it all day. Yes you will. |
Author: | Hawg Ass [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:00 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
Terry's Peeps wrote: Hawg Ass wrote: immessedup17 wrote: Needs more semicolon. A leg kick is standard when pitching. Ask your son. Stepping towards third when trying to pick off the guy at first is not a standard move. That first action is SOLELY to deceive the runner. It has no other function at all. There is deceit all thru baseball, but I am not going to sit here and argue about it all day. Yes you will. NO I WILL NOT!!! |
Author: | Terry's Peeps [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:08 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
Ok... Geez... |
Author: | Hawg Ass [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:22 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
immessedup17 wrote: Hawg Ass wrote: immessedup17 wrote: Needs more semicolon. A leg kick is standard when pitching. Ask your son. Stepping towards third when trying to pick off the guy at first is not a standard move. That first action is SOLELY to deceive the runner. It has no other function at all. There is deceit all thru baseball, but I am not going to sit here and argue about it all day. Sure. Except when it comes to the pitcher delivering the ball. The rules say deceit is bad. A left handed pitcher is trying to deceive the runner, you can call whatever you want. |
Author: | Hawg Ass [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:24 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
immessedup17 wrote: I see what you are saying, but disagree with your assessment. And I really, really miss baseball. We Agree!!!! Hawg Jr. and I were just discussing your bromance with Castro , he wanted to know if you were going to be at the Bulls game. |
Author: | KDdidit [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:47 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
If the guy gets picked off than I'm pretty sure he was deceived. Unless he wanted to get picked off. |
Author: | Hawg Ass [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:13 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Third-to-first fake pickoff is now officially a balk |
KDdidit wrote: If the guy gets picked off than I'm pretty sure he was deceived. Unless he wanted to get picked off. |
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