spmack wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Love guys with 2 first names
Especially those from Rogers Park?
Why of course
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| Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=78438 |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
DING, DING http://deadspin.com/brian-kenny-loses-his-shit-on-hawk-harrelson-472678674 |
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| Author: | SHARK [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
I bet Harrelson goes off on B.K. this eve on the WGN Sports' broadcast of the White Sox/Indians' game. |
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| Author: | Hatchetman [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
Brian, Kenny....who the hell are they? |
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| Author: | jimmypasta [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
Hawk is entitled to his opinion. He's an old timer much like the scouts portrayed in Moneyball. Nothing wrong with that. |
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| Author: | RFDC [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
Love guys with 2 first names |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
I am a big fan of both guys. Hawk is wrong in this instance though. |
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| Author: | spmack [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
RFDC wrote: Love guys with 2 first names Especially those from Rogers Park? |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
And this isnt even a "Does SABRmetrics work" argument (it DOES work, btw) Hawk didnt even say it has a place and is overused or anything like that. He basically is saying "We were better off ignornat" |
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| Author: | Urlacher's missing neck [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
Hawk is an accomplished former General Manager of a Major League baseball team. How dare this Kenny guy speak to him like that. |
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| Author: | RFDC [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
spmack wrote: RFDC wrote: Love guys with 2 first names Especially those from Rogers Park? Why of course
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| Author: | Hatchetman [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
Watching baseball for 35 years, the difference is steroids and reliance on the home run. If that is Sabermetrics, fine. Of course it works!! |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
Hatchetman wrote: Watching baseball for 35 years, the difference is steroids and reliance on the home run. If that is Sabermetrics, fine. Of course it works!! So, Steroids is the reason the Rays average 92 wins a year since they started using SABRmetrics? |
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| Author: | Hatchetman [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
rogers park bryan wrote: So, Steroids is the reason the Rays average 92 wins a year since they started using SABRmetrics? Everybody uses it. Who doesn't? |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
Hatchetman wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: So, Steroids is the reason the Rays average 92 wins a year since they started using SABRmetrics? Everybody uses it. Who doesn't? Hawk Certain teams are very late to the party. I just cant have another SABR discussion though. You believe what you believe. Hawk is promoting ignorance. |
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| Author: | Hatchetman [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
rogers park bryan wrote: Hawk is promoting ignorance. Do you go up to guys with long beards and "the end is near" signs and tell them they are promoting ignorance? |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
Hatchetman wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: Hawk is promoting ignorance. Do you go up to guys with long beards and "the end is near" signs and tell them they are promoting ignorance? Occasionally |
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| Author: | Hatchetman [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
In sum: how could anyone care what an old fool says? I mentioned the Hawk statements in the game thread a few days ago, chuckling to myself at what a loon he is. That being said, sabermetrics is 90% getting big sonofabitches that can knock the living shit out of the ball. |
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| Author: | SHARK [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't more and more teams using sabermetrics to help shape their respective rosters? |
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| Author: | Hatchetman [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
SHARK wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't more and more teams using sabermetrics to help shape their respective rosters? They all are! Are you kidding me? |
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| Author: | SHARK [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
Hatchetman wrote: SHARK wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't more and more teams using sabermetrics to help shape their respective rosters? They all are! Are you kidding me? I thought so. |
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| Author: | Brick [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
rogers park bryan wrote: Hatchetman wrote: Watching baseball for 35 years, the difference is steroids and reliance on the home run. If that is Sabermetrics, fine. Of course it works!! So, Steroids is the reason the Rays average 92 wins a year since they started using SABRmetrics? |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
Boilermaker Rick wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: Hatchetman wrote: Watching baseball for 35 years, the difference is steroids and reliance on the home run. If that is Sabermetrics, fine. Of course it works!! So, Steroids is the reason the Rays average 92 wins a year since they started using SABRmetrics? Ok |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
Hatchetman wrote: That being said, sabermetrics is 90% getting big sonofabitches that can knock the living shit out of the ball. But advanced statistics are not unique to baseball. |
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| Author: | Hatchetman [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
rogers park bryan wrote: But advanced statistics are not unique to baseball. Maybe not, but its the only sport where it makes any sense since each baseball action is essentially attributable to one person. |
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| Author: | bigfan [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
Hatchetman wrote: Watching baseball for 35 years, the difference is steroids and reliance on the home run. If that is Sabermetrics, fine. Of course it works!! Which team was last in HR's last year? |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
Personally, I believe advanced stats are a good thing and a great tool. I think they played a part in Boston's championships (Id credit the David Ortiz acquisition to advanced stats) and the success of small market teams like The A's and Rays. Just my thought. |
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| Author: | jimmypasta [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
bigfan wrote: Hatchetman wrote: Watching baseball for 35 years, the difference is steroids and reliance on the home run. If that is Sabermetrics, fine. Of course it works!! Which team was last in HR's last year? The Champs? SF |
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| Author: | Hatchetman [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
bigfan wrote: Which team was last in HR's last year? Yeah, they used advanced sabermetrics, called pulling a horseshoe out of your ass. |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
Hatchetman wrote: bigfan wrote: Which team was last in HR's last year? Yeah, they used advanced sabermetrics, called pulling a horseshoe out of your ass. The Giants Sure Use A Lot Of Sabermetrics For An Anti-Sabermetric Team SEXPAND The Giants' World Series title is the latest point of retreat for the desperate sportswriter still looking to slam the use of statistics in baseball. In today's San Francisco Chronicle, Bruce Jenkins insists that this championship team got there through hard work, gristle, faces, eyes, shoulders, knees, toes, etc.: The San Francisco model is based on visual evidence, not statistics, and it clearly works - but it will fail, miserably, in the hands of organizations cutting their scouting staffs and stocking computers. Those people wouldn't understand what the Giants saw in Gregor Blanco, a longtime disappointment, as he tore up the Venezuelan winter league. They wouldn't necessarily spot the massive heart inside Sergio Romo, or what Hunter Pence's relentless energy brings to a contending team. The Giants look at the face, the demeanor, the background, the ability to play one's best under suffocating pressure - all the components "Moneyball" lamely holds up to ridicule. If you try calling [Giants GM Brian] Sabean a genius, he'll laugh in your face. Baseball is an enterprise of failure, both on and off the field, and it's a game of humility. He doesn't pretend to know everything, he'll gladly recount his misfired decisions over the years, and he knows these prideful days could unravel into a third-place finish next year. But he won't stop trusting his eyes. There are a couple problems with this. The first is that over the course of the regular season, the Giants were around the 10th best team in baseball, and neither a scout nor a sabermetrician would have favored Barry Zito over Justin Verlander. The second is that Jenkins's impression of the team's front office seems willfully ignorant of its quantitative methods. Colin Wyers over at Baseball Prospectus dug up some older articles about the Giants' front office that show the team is very much on the sabermetric bandwagon: In stealth mode, the Giants are now able to track the ball in the opposite direction. Fieldf/x, which the Giants are fully deploying for the first time this year, tracks the hit ball and the defensive players as they react to it. For the first time since baseball statistics have been kept - we are talking 150 years - baseball statisticians will soon have objective data on how quickly fielders react to balls in play, how fast they get to the ball, and the accuracy and location of their throws. ... Goldfarb had a role in just about every player personnel decision the Giants' baseball operations department made to shape this year's team - from past amateur drafts to in-season trades to off-season free-agent signings. "He's one of our ‘Moneyball' guys, if you will," Giants president Larry Baer said last week, alluding to the process of finding valuable players that other teams might overlook. "He does a lot of our really important analysis on player acquisitions." The Giants are also more progressive and Sabermetrically inclined than their reputation suggests. No move is made at either the major or minor league levels without statistical analysts Jeremy Shelley and Yeshayah Goldfarb crunching the numbers first. If there is any grain of truth to the idea that sabermetrics is now out of fashion in baseball, it's that teams use it so much that the margin one team can get on another is shrinking. But that's not what Jenkins is arguing: He's still insisting that numbers have no place in San Francisco, and that a team must choose between scouting and stats. It wasn't true when he first started whining about it a decade ago, and it's even less true now |
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| Author: | Don Tiny [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk Harrellson vs. Brian Kenny |
rogers park bryan wrote: And this isnt even a "Does SABRmetrics work" argument (it DOES work, btw) Hawk didnt even say it has a place and is overused or anything like that. He basically is saying "We were better off ignornat" I'd be curious how one could have held Ron Santo in such low regard but think Hawk is perfectly fine with his idiot ramblings that more than occasionally don't resemble anything close to reality. Anyone wants to try to take at rectifying that cognitive dissonance, please do try. |
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