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| Should the Cardinals keep pitching to Ortiz? https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=82721 |
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| Author: | badrogue17 [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Should the Cardinals keep pitching to Ortiz? |
For the 7 or 8 of us still interested in baseball, are the Cardinals royal fuck ups for continuing to pitch to Ortiz? He seems to be the only one hitting for Boston. personally , I like that Matheny has the balls to say fuck you dude, I believe in out pitchers and their ability . Granted if there were a Cards player torching Bostons pitching like that, Id probably be screaming at Farrell for doing it but in a strictly competitive sense, I like that they're not backing down. Greg, Apologist, how does it look from a Cards fan perspective? |
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| Author: | newper [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Should the Cardinals keep pitching to Ortiz? |
At this point, not sure why you wouldn't be walking him in most situations. He's in an incredible groove, and even though you think you can pitch to him, why take the chance when the next guys up will be so much easier to get out? I mean the guy is OPSing over 2! I understand there is going to be some regression to the mean over the long term, but it's certainly not unheard of for a guy to get this hot over a two or three week period during the season. |
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| Author: | jimmypasta [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Should the Cardinals keep pitching to Ortiz? |
No IW,but everything he gets would be "in the dirt" low and outside. |
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| Author: | badrogue17 [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Should the Cardinals keep pitching to Ortiz? |
So if in the next 2 games Ortiz walks 6 times and goes 1 for 3 and the Cardinals end up winning, was that "good baseball" to go around him and admitting hes just better than your pitchers but you'll take the 2 wins and Series without really beating the best the Red Sox put out there? |
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| Author: | Don Tiny [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Should the Cardinals keep pitching to Ortiz? |
Tony LaDrinky would be pitching too him, that's for damned sure. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Should the Cardinals keep pitching to Ortiz? |
Too complex of a question for any of us rubes to figure out. Maybe Stephen Hawking knows. |
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| Author: | RFDC [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Should the Cardinals keep pitching to Ortiz? |
Yes, yes they should. |
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| Author: | jimmypasta [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Should the Cardinals keep pitching to Ortiz? |
badrogue17 wrote: So if in the next 2 games Ortiz walks 6 times and goes 1 for 3 and the Cardinals end up winning, was that "good baseball" to go around him and admitting hes just better than your pitchers but you'll take the 2 wins and Series without really beating the best the Red Sox put out there? Part of the game. In 30 years,all anyone sees is the results. |
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| Author: | newper [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Should the Cardinals keep pitching to Ortiz? |
badrogue17 wrote: So if in the next 2 games Ortiz walks 6 times and goes 1 for 3 and the Cardinals end up winning, was that "good baseball" to go around him and admitting hes just better than your pitchers but you'll take the 2 wins and Series without really beating the best the Red Sox put out there? 
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| Author: | Nas [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Should the Cardinals keep pitching to Ortiz? |
Make him move his feet or hit him. When a guy get on base 9 times in a row he should hit the ground or be forced to move his feet. Even changing your delivery didn't really work because he still hit the ball hard. |
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| Author: | badrogue17 [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Should the Cardinals keep pitching to Ortiz? |
newper wrote: badrogue17 wrote: So if in the next 2 games Ortiz walks 6 times and goes 1 for 3 and the Cardinals end up winning, was that "good baseball" to go around him and admitting hes just better than your pitchers but you'll take the 2 wins and Series without really beating the best the Red Sox put out there? Not trolling at all. I think its a legit question to ask. Are you really the best team if your pitchers are instructed not to pitch to the other teams best hitter? jimmy probably is right, if they were to do that and somehow win the series in 30 years no one will remember that Ortiz was pitched around. Personally I feel that if your pitchers aren't good enough to get this guy out you probably aren't the best team and don't deserve to win the title. I commend the Cardinals for manning up . |
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| Author: | leashyourkids [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Should the Cardinals keep pitching to Ortiz? |
badrogue17 wrote: newper wrote: badrogue17 wrote: So if in the next 2 games Ortiz walks 6 times and goes 1 for 3 and the Cardinals end up winning, was that "good baseball" to go around him and admitting hes just better than your pitchers but you'll take the 2 wins and Series without really beating the best the Red Sox put out there? Not trolling at all. I think its a legit question to ask. Are you really the best team if your pitchers are instructed not to pitch to the other teams best hitter? jimmy probably is right, if they were to do that and somehow win the series in 30 years no one will remember that Ortiz was pitched around. Personally I feel that if your pitchers aren't good enough to get this guy out you probably aren't the best team and don't deserve to win the title. I commend the Cardinals for manning up . So, strategy is not part of what makes a team the "best team"? Besides, it's arguable if any World Series winner is ever the "best team." To me, it's irrelevant. They are the champions because they won the championship within the framework of how baseball is currently constructed (i.e. the current regular season/playoff system). If it helps you win, you do it. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Should the Cardinals keep pitching to Ortiz? |
leashyourkids wrote: They are the champions because they won the championship within the framework of how baseball is currently constructed (i.e. the current regular season/playoff system). This is exactly the way I feel. And that's why I find the concept that "the best team didn't win" to be patently silly. And that goes for any sport or tournament. If we're not going to use the results to declare the "best team", why play the games at all? |
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| Author: | jimmypasta [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Should the Cardinals keep pitching to Ortiz? |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: leashyourkids wrote: They are the champions because they won the championship within the framework of how baseball is currently constructed (i.e. the current regular season/playoff system). This is exactly the way I feel. And that's why I find the concept that "the best team didn't win" to be patently silly. And that goes for any sport or tournament. If we're not going to use the results to declare the "best team", why play the games at all? What's Bernsteins take? |
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| Author: | leashyourkids [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Should the Cardinals keep pitching to Ortiz? |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: leashyourkids wrote: They are the champions because they won the championship within the framework of how baseball is currently constructed (i.e. the current regular season/playoff system). This is exactly the way I feel. And that's why I find the concept that "the best team didn't win" to be patently silly. And that goes for any sport or tournament. If we're not going to use the results to declare the "best team", why play the games at all? Yes. Also, teams know how the regular season/playoffs are constructed before they begin building their rosters and coaching staffs. Knowing that, isn't it their responsibility to construct their team to win based on how the rules currently work? That may not always mean the most "talented," whatever that means. It means the team that can WIN. |
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| Author: | leashyourkids [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Should the Cardinals keep pitching to Ortiz? |
jimmypasta wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: leashyourkids wrote: They are the champions because they won the championship within the framework of how baseball is currently constructed (i.e. the current regular season/playoff system). This is exactly the way I feel. And that's why I find the concept that "the best team didn't win" to be patently silly. And that goes for any sport or tournament. If we're not going to use the results to declare the "best team", why play the games at all? What's Bernsteins take? Have a computer run a simulation to determine the winner. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Should the Cardinals keep pitching to Ortiz? |
leashyourkids wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: leashyourkids wrote: They are the champions because they won the championship within the framework of how baseball is currently constructed (i.e. the current regular season/playoff system). This is exactly the way I feel. And that's why I find the concept that "the best team didn't win" to be patently silly. And that goes for any sport or tournament. If we're not going to use the results to declare the "best team", why play the games at all? Yes. Also, teams know how the regular season/playoffs are constructed before they begin building their rosters and coaching staffs. Knowing that, isn't it their responsibility to construct their team to win based on how the rules currently work? That may not always mean the most "talented," whatever that means. It means the team that can WIN. And I do believe there are certain characteristics that help a baseball team win a series of 5 and 7 games sets in the postseason. It's fashionable to call the playoffs a "crapshoot". Really? Could Billy Beane be that unlucky at craps? You'd think he'd roll a point once in awhile, wouldn't you? |
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| Author: | jimmypasta [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Should the Cardinals keep pitching to Ortiz? |
unluckiest guy:Bobby Cox |
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| Author: | badrogue17 [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Should the Cardinals keep pitching to Ortiz? |
jimmypasta wrote: unluckiest guy:Bobby Cox unluckiest gal: Bobby Cox's wife. |
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| Author: | jimmypasta [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Should the Cardinals keep pitching to Ortiz? |
badrogue17 wrote: jimmypasta wrote: unluckiest guy:Bobby Cox unluckiest gal: Bobby Cox's wife. Really? one bullshit incident in 1995 and his wife didn't press charges. |
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| Author: | Hank Scorpio [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Should the Cardinals keep pitching to Ortiz? |
When the Cubs win the WS in 2015, I wont care what the team does to accomplish that goal. |
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| Author: | newper [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Should the Cardinals keep pitching to Ortiz? |
badrogue17 wrote: Not trolling at all. I think its a legit question to ask. Are you really the best team if your pitchers are instructed not to pitch to the other teams best hitter? jimmy probably is right, if they were to do that and somehow win the series in 30 years no one will remember that Ortiz was pitched around. Personally I feel that if your pitchers aren't good enough to get this guy out you probably aren't the best team and don't deserve to win the title. I commend the Cardinals for manning up . Say it was the Superbowl and you're Peyton Manning playing Seattle -- do you keep throwing the ball to whoever Sherman is covering just to prove you can beat him? If you get intercepted 3 times and they win the game based on points generated directly off the turnover, wouldn't you blame Peyton Manning for not managing the game effectively? To me, this is a similar situation -- the pitcher has the right to walk the batter if he so chooses. It's a risk assessment game. So if Ortiz lights up the Cardinals pitchers, I blame them for pitching to him as much as I do congratulate Ortiz for hitting well. If they pitch around Ortiz and win games, I would congratulate them for a strategy that paid off, and for Ortiz -- what can you do? As a hitter, you don't get to control what's coming at you -- much like a DB doesn't get to control when a QB will be passing a football his way. |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Should the Cardinals keep pitching to Ortiz? |
Pasta is right. Pitch around him. If he hits low and outside sliders, so be it. If he walks, that's ok too since no one else on the Sox is hitting |
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