Ignore David Price's 4.28 ERA and league leading 78 hits allowed- both are the product of the variance on balls put into play that can haunt any pitcher.

If this is where SABRmetrics are leading people, it's just wrong. It started with W/L record being "meaningless" and has now advanced to the point where hits and runs allowed are also apparently "meaningless". Maybe Jamie Navarro was really great after all and I just didn't know it at the time.

If this is where SABRmetrics are leading people, it's just wrong. It started with W/L record being "meaningless" and has now advanced to the point where hits and runs allowed are also apparently "meaningless". Maybe Jamie Navarro was really great after all and I just didn't know it at the time.

Sweet merciful Christ.

Why is that funny?

@ Lipid though.

I'm sure Lipid would agree with me that, however we want to judge them, Bob Gibson was a better pitcher than Jake Peavy. And yet Peavy has allowed less walks and hits per 9 innings than Gibson did throughout his career.

Yes, I'm willing to make the controversial stand that, even though his career WHIP was a .001 better than Gibson's, looking at everything else Peavy is the inferior pitcher.

Yes, I'm willing to make the controversial stand that, even though his career WHIP was a .001 better than Gibson's, looking at everything else Peavy is the inferior pitcher.

But it most certainly is a controversial stand if one is going to insist that "a pitcher's job is to prevent baserunners." Gibson did not do that as well as Peavy and Gibson had the advantage of playing in an era that was extremely favorable to pitchers.

The point is you can pull all kinds of numbers and use them to support all kinds of dumb arguments. Like saying that the screaming line drives David Price is allowing between strikeouts are meaningless.

Sweet merciful Christ.

Whatever. I guess you must agree with Joe Sheehan that his near 5 ERA and league leading hits allowed don't matter and he is having a great season. Either that, or you agree with what I'm saying but prefer to be a douche. Jesus on a jackhammer.

I agreed with your assessment on Gibson/Peavy and you gave me the business!

Some people are easily amused. And others just like to post dumb stuff like "Christ on a Canondale" for the thousandth time rather than having a real discussion or simply shutting the fuck up. Those people usually get angry when they get a response like this one, although it is easily expected.

Well, you agreed in a snarky way. Obviously, there's no argument that Peavy is better than Gibson. Anyone who suggested otherwise would be certified insane.

The point wasn't really to discuss those two guys. It's the fact that easy access to information and statistics has caused this overriding desire in many fans, fantasy league players, and writers to look for stuff that isn't really there. Like how can we take a guy with a giant ERA and a lot of hits allowed and show the world how much smarter we are than all the people who rightfully think that guy is having a shit year.

Also, if we were to extrapolate JORR's logic, a GM could just get the five best starting pitchers on the planet, regardless of money, and just have a lineup of triple A minimum contract players. It wouldn't matter how good the offense was, as the five best pitchers should almost always defeat a lesser pitcher, regardless of how good the offenses are. This would obviously not work.

I didn't know Jorr had a problem with Darko.

I agree. That would be a good team if healthy.

I think that would be a pretty damn good team. I'm certain they would be a contender. And that AAA offense never has to face the five best pitchers on the planet.

I don't unless he pointlessly attacks me. If he finds a conversation tedious or idiotic or whatever, I would advise him just to ignore it like so many of the rest of us ignore conversations in which they have little to no interest. There are entire sections I find worthless but you don't see me in them mocking the participants by posting dumb stuff like "Zeus on a zephyr". Or he can just do what he does and I'll answer the way I do. Either way is fine with me.

But that's changing the hypothetical. I'd say there's a fairly significant difference between the five best starting pitchers in the world and five very good pitchers. And as long as we are trying to add a hint of realism to this, your team would still be able to sign draft picks and it's highly unlikely that you don't eventually add at least 2-3 other ML caliber hitters or bullpen guys that will produce before they hit arbitration.