First ballot HOF. Not a doubt in my mind.

The point is, nobody in his right mind could think Aramis Ramirez was better than Scott Rolen. And Scott Rolen ain't making the Hall of Fame.

The point is, nobody in his right mind could think Aramis Ramirez was better than Scott Rolen. And Scott Rolen ain't making the Hall of Fame.

Besides Pujols, Trout, Cabrera, and Jeter... no other active player will ever make the HOF.

Besides Pujols, Trout, Cabrera, and Jeter... no other active player will ever make the HOF.

Besides Pujols, Trout, Cabrera, and Jeter... no other active player will ever make the HOF.

Ichiro

It's way too soon to put Trout in that group. And barring his career being over, Verlander is probably going to make it. And maybe Sabathia too. They're not just going to stop putting starting pitchers in simply because nobody gets enough decisions to make 250 career wins anymore.

So is 200 going to be the new benchmark or even lower? If it's 200 then you have to look at a Tim Hudson, Bartolo Colon and Buerhle...

How good was Maddux then? I believe that he had a 5 year stretch where he had an ERA below 2 and he won at least 15 games for about 17 years in a row.

Great in the regular season but meh in the postseason.

Most pitchers dominant years will be to small of a window to get in. Look at Lincecum. Verlander's dominant days are done. Felix and Kershaw have the best chance, but they have to stay healthy.

You can't put a number on wins anymore ...pedro is getting in...he's under 300

Miguel Cabrera is a no doubter..good call on Ichiro.

Well, yeah, staying healthy is the whole ballgame. But Verlander has a head start on someone like Kershaw, who could easily have a career ending injury tomorrow. He's already at 150 wins and has been the best pitcher in his league over the last ten years. He's going to have over 2000 strikeouts. Kershaw is going to do those things too if he stays on the field. But that's a big "if" these days. I can make a lot better case for Verlander than I could for guys like Buehrle and Colon. I'm just not sure how the voters are going to adjust to the new paradigms. It can't be that no starting pitchers ever make it in again.

Why does it seem like the best pitchers can't stay healthy?

I don't think it's a coincidence the best curveballs in the game happen to belong to the best pitchers. Kershaw, Wainwright, Jose Fernandez, King Felix.

Half of your list had Tommy John surgery.

Your point? A similar percentage of legendary pitchers would have had TJS in their respective eras of dominance as well, if Tommy John surgery had existed. Guys who throw 200+ (300+ back in the day) frames every year, are eventually going to blow out their arms. A well-thrown curve is probably less stressful on the elbow, shoulder, and arm in general than the splitter, cutter, and especially the slider. The guys I mentioned all have slider, but it's generally not their breaking ball of choice (the big looping Uncle Charlie). We are fast approaching a point where all pitchers who have an 6-10+ year career will eventually go under the knife.