Jim Riggleman could've won if he had the 2000 Yankees...
...naw, who the fuck am I kidding!
| Chicago Fanatics Message Board https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/ |
|
| Does the manager matter? https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=93826 |
Page 1 of 4 |
| Author: | Darkside [ Sun May 03, 2015 7:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Does the manager matter? |
Many say that the MLB manager makes little to no difference in the outcome of an MLB season. Interestingly enough, some that say this are railing against Robin Ventura as a root cause for the White Sox slow start after a much celebrated off season. Many also think that Maddon is contributing to a Cubs team that is, with the exception of this weekend beginning to exceed expectations. So I ask the opinion of the board, does the manager make a difference? |
|
| Author: | bigfan [ Sun May 03, 2015 8:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
Makes a BIG difference because of the small margin of difference between teams. Where JORR theory falls short is his assumption that all the players are professionals and know whats the best thing to do...which is very rare. Covering all the bases, talking to every player about everything, making sure everyone is in the right frame of mind to win....and 100 other things before every game. does that mean a good manager will win 162 games, of course not, but if you have a good manager and he gets you 5 more wins than a team with an average manager, thats probably the difference between a playoff teams and a 85 win team...making it a VERY BIG DIFFERENCE. That given, the way manager knows what to do is because he has managed at various levels, or has been on a staff, etc....its called experience of the position.... I believe what the Sox did was an insult to every manager in baseball, that they claimed to know better... Plus, let me add who created the "Robin Plan"....Kenny Williams...and you need to ask why he did that? Was it to prove his point that anyone can manage a team he would put together?...and if you dont think it was a part of the reason, then you dont know crap about the 'ChiSox" and how they have worked for the last 15 years. |
|
| Author: | sjboyd0137 [ Sun May 03, 2015 8:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
Other than in-game decisions (pitching changes, pinch hitters, etc), no. |
|
| Author: | bigfan [ Sun May 03, 2015 8:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
sjboyd0137 wrote: Other than in-game decisions (pitching changes, pinch hitters, etc), no. Couldnt be more wrong. |
|
| Author: | sjboyd0137 [ Sun May 03, 2015 8:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
Ok We will have to agree to disagree. |
|
| Author: | Scorehead [ Sun May 03, 2015 8:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
Leadership matters. Alot. |
|
| Author: | Colonel Angus [ Sun May 03, 2015 8:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
Jim Riggleman could've won if he had the 2000 Yankees... ...naw, who the fuck am I kidding!
|
|
| Author: | Rod [ Sun May 03, 2015 8:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
sjboyd0137 wrote: Other than in-game decisions (pitching changes, pinch hitters, etc), no. I actually think it's the opposite of that. When I say too much is made of managers, I'm talking largely about in-game decisions. The vast majority of decisions are going to be the same regardless of the manager. But the way a guy leads his team can be crucial. My point would be that it's not correct to call a guy "good" or "bad" based on that. A guy might be right for one situation and wrong for another. Leyland wasn't a different guy when he quit in Colorado than when he won in Detroit. Obviously, he had a better team in Detroit. But I don't think he helped his team in Colorado. The White Sox are terrible. It's not because of Ventura. But he's the only thing you can reasonably change. And sometimes a change like that can shake a team up. |
|
| Author: | conns7901 [ Sun May 03, 2015 8:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
I think they matter more with off field stuff. I blame Dusty for the meltdown in Game 6 and the final week of 04. |
|
| Author: | Keyser Soze [ Sun May 03, 2015 8:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
All that matters for a manager is that the team respects him and play hard. The Sox players clearly respect Robin and they do play hard. They're not hitting and that makes them look like a "dead ass team" but you show me a "lively" team that is last or close to last in just about every offensive category. Players doing their jobs matter. |
|
| Author: | Apologist [ Sun May 03, 2015 9:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
Game management matters more in the NL than the AL. Maybe less than a win either way, so let's say +/- 2.5 wins NL and +/- 1.5 wins AL. Statistically, Billy Martin was the best manager in baseball. But, there were clearly times he was not the right guy for the team and was fired (some of them due to obvious differences with management). Best actual field manager IMO: Earl Weaver |
|
| Author: | conns7901 [ Sun May 03, 2015 9:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
Quote: Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal #Brewers announce dismissal of manager Ron Roenicke. Just won 2 of 3.
|
|
| Author: | Rod [ Mon May 04, 2015 6:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
Apologist wrote: Game management matters more in the NL than the AL. I don't think that's true either. The DH doesn't mean there is less strategy. It just means there is different strategy. Most of the time the decision to pinch hit for a pitcher makes itself. In the AL the manager actually has to make the call whether a guy is out of gas or whether he can squeeze a few more outs out of him. |
|
| Author: | Apologist [ Mon May 04, 2015 7:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Apologist wrote: Game management matters more in the NL than the AL. I don't think that's true either. The DH doesn't mean there is less strategy. It just means there is different strategy. Most of the time the decision to pinch hit for a pitcher makes itself. In the AL the manager actually has to make the call whether a guy is out of gas or whether he can squeeze a few more outs out of him. Well, we can agree that in game strategy doesn't matter a whole lot. It frustrates me as a fan-- putting in Wacha in Game 7 when he hadn't pitched in 3 months being an egregious example. There is something else to managing though-- I do admit that Matheny is a "leader of Men" type and he has been able to steward the Cardinals through this golden era of sorts with, for the most part-- impeccable results. |
|
| Author: | Juiced [ Mon May 04, 2015 7:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
I think it depends on what type of team you have. Do you have a young team that needs leadership or a veteran team that does not. The Cubs have a very young team and in my opinion need a manger who knows how to keep them loose and still be an authority figure. Maddon seems to be that guy. Maddon has a big effect on the team. The White Sox have an older veteran team that is full of veterans who do not need their hand held and a pat on the back. The problem with the White Sox is not the manager, it is the GM and the lack of a farm system to mix with the free agents they signed over the last couple years. Every Cub fan knows what it is like when your GM tries to put an band aid on your team, trying to mask the real problems that their farm system is not setup to fix. Ventura has minimal effect on this team. He is just the scapegoat. Switch Ventura for Maddon and you would have a Cub team at .500 and a Sox Team with maybe 1 more win. |
|
| Author: | Walt Williams Neck [ Mon May 04, 2015 7:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
Let us keep Managers until teams surround them with good enough players to win it all 
|
|
| Author: | Rod [ Mon May 04, 2015 7:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
Walt Williams Neck wrote: Let us keep Managers until teams surround them with good enough players to win it all Unfortunately, as much sense as that makes, a guy has to have earned something to be allowed to lose indefinitely. And even after all those good years they ran Gardenhire out of Minnesota. Managers do have a shelf life. Billy Martin was the same damn guy when he was winning as he was when he was fighting his players and his teams were under-performing. Maybe you think Bob Lemon was a better manager than Billy Martin. I don't. |
|
| Author: | Keyser Soze [ Mon May 04, 2015 8:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
Another former player with zero managing experience just got hired. Are we seeing the trend?? Craig Counsell Robin Ventura Mike Matheny Paul Molitor Kevin Cash Brad Ausmus Walt Weiss Mike Redmond |
|
| Author: | Juiced [ Mon May 04, 2015 8:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
Keyser Soze wrote: Another former player with zero managing experience just got hired. Are we seeing the trend?? Craig Counsell Robin Ventura Mike Matheny Paul Molitor Kevin Cash Brad Ausmus Walt Weiss Mike Redmond  The $%#@! I care? |
|
| Author: | good dolphin [ Mon May 04, 2015 8:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
A manager's most important contributions occur before the first pitch of the regular season. A manager's priorities become the player's priorities. |
|
| Author: | IMU [ Mon May 04, 2015 8:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
I believe managers are important. During a game, and preparing the team to play games. |
|
| Author: | Darkside [ Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
So........... Yeah. |
|
| Author: | Rod [ Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
You seem reaaly obsessed with my opinion on this subject. On the other hand, I don't give the slightest fuck about yours. |
|
| Author: | Darkside [ Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: You seem reaaly obsessed with my opinion on this subject. On the other hand, I don't give the slightest fuck about yours. Who fucking cares what stupid opinions you have? You are like a magnet to my posts. Stop fucking reading them. Obviously you're on an island anyway. |
|
| Author: | Rod [ Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
Darkside wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: You seem reaaly obsessed with my opinion on this subject. On the other hand, I don't give the slightest fuck about yours. Who fucking cares what stupid opinions you have? You are like a magnet to my posts. Stop fucking reading them. Obviously you're on an island anyway. Obviously you do, you stupid Caller Bob. |
|
| Author: | Darkside [ Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Darkside wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: You seem reaaly obsessed with my opinion on this subject. On the other hand, I don't give the slightest fuck about yours. Who fucking cares what stupid opinions you have? You are like a magnet to my posts. Stop fucking reading them. Obviously you're on an island anyway. Obviously you do, you stupid Caller Bob. Your opinion: "The cubs have the same chance as the Sox at the postseason... zero" Your opinions pretty much suck |
|
| Author: | Terry's Peeps [ Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
Managers don't matter over the course of a season. Or at least they matter a negligible amount. |
|
| Author: | Rod [ Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
Your opinion: It would be better if the Cubs lost. Your opinions suck too. |
|
| Author: | Rod [ Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
Terry's Peeps wrote: Managers don't matter over the course of a season. Or at least they matter a negligible amount. Uh oh, my island is getting crowded. |
|
| Author: | Darkside [ Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Does the manager matter? |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Your opinion: It would be better if the Cubs lost. Your opinions suck too. You and I both know that's not what I said. But you go ahead and make it fit your narrative. It's sad what you've become. You used to be a good baseball poster until your hate for Cubs took over your reason. Face it. Either your evaluation of the Cubs talent was terrible or your evaluation of management was terrible. Or both. |
|
| Page 1 of 4 | All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ] |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group https://www.phpbb.com/ |
|