RFDC wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Especially if MLB goes to an automated plate umpire that is set to call the rulebook strikezone.
They should automate the pitchers too.maybe go to a coach pitch system.
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| Super Bullpens https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=96803 |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Super Bullpens |
Hawk Harrelson was way ahead of the game on the importance and increasing impact of bullpens. KC set the blueprint. A lot of teams trying to load up on closers or power arms now. It will be very interesting to see how this works out going forward. Joe Buck and Harold Reynolds were talking about it yesterday. Will bullpen guys start getting more money? Will young fireballers be more ok with going to the pen now? (Papelbon, Chapman, Wade Davis were all supposed to be starters) Also, as an aside, I believe Jeff Samardzija could be a great bullpen guy |
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| Author: | Rod [ Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Super Bullpens |
I'm not sure where pitching is going to go. I could see the virtual elimination of "starting" pitchers altogether at some point down the line. We saw a taste of that this season, I believe in Tampa. And Maddon had a spot in his rotation down the stretch where he split the game into small chunks. It's odd though, because pitching is dominating more than ever and the best pitchers are obviously the guys that start, i.e. the guys that are relied upon to cover most of the innings. And it leads me back to my conclusion that the biggest change in the game during my lifetime is the way the walk is viewed. Pitchers are allowing less runs than ever, but batters are going up looking to take pitches/walk rather than looking to crush a ball. Most of the time they end up striking out. There are far more strikeouts than ever while walks have remained relatively static. You combine that with pitch counts and it's easy to see the game moving toward a bunch of interchangeable pitchers who are all capable of giving you two or three innings three times a week. |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Super Bullpens |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: I'm not sure where pitching is going to go. I could see the virtual elimination of "starting" pitchers altogether at some point down the line. We saw a taste of that this season, I believe in Tampa. And Maddon had a spot in his rotation down the stretch where he split the game into small chunks. It's odd though, because pitching is dominating more than ever and the best pitchers are obviously the guys that start, i.e. the guys that are relied upon to cover most of the innings. Yes, the starting pitcher is fading. Eventually, you will only expect 3 or 4 innings from the starter. And the best pitchers will start going to the bullpen. They'll go where the money and prestige are. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Super Bullpens |
rogers park bryan wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: I'm not sure where pitching is going to go. I could see the virtual elimination of "starting" pitchers altogether at some point down the line. We saw a taste of that this season, I believe in Tampa. And Maddon had a spot in his rotation down the stretch where he split the game into small chunks. It's odd though, because pitching is dominating more than ever and the best pitchers are obviously the guys that start, i.e. the guys that are relied upon to cover most of the innings. Yes, the starting pitcher is fading. Eventually, you will only expect 3 or 4 innings from the starter. And the best pitchers will start going to the bullpen. They'll go where the money and prestige are. But that leads to another issue and a pay scale that will eventually need to be addressed. On paper it's silly to use your strongest pitcher to start a clean ninth with a 3 run lead. That's why Bill James is a proponent of the "relief ace" concept. There are two problems with that- the aforementioned salary issue and the fact that the game isn't played on paper. We've seen many, many guys over the years with dominating stuff and dominating numbers who couldn't get the job done when they were asked to get the final three outs. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Super Bullpens |
rogers park bryan wrote: Yes, the starting pitcher is fading. Eventually, you will only expect 3 or 4 innings from the starter. I could see it going the other way too, though. Especially if MLB goes to an automated plate umpire that is set to call the rulebook strikezone. All that standing up there to see pitches and coax walks and get into long counts will be out the window. Batters will be forced to look for the best pitch to hit and it might be the first one they see. That will help stretch the starters out as they will likely be throwing far less pitches. |
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| Author: | Kirkwood [ Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Super Bullpens |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: It's odd though, because pitching is dominating more than ever and the best pitchers are obviously the guys that start, i.e. the guys that are relied upon to cover most of the innings. Eliminating the strike at the ankle will lessen the domination of pitching |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Super Bullpens |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: Yes, the starting pitcher is fading. Eventually, you will only expect 3 or 4 innings from the starter. I could see it going the other way too, though. Especially if MLB goes to an automated plate umpire that is set to call the rulebook strikezone. All that standing up there to see pitches and coax walks and get into long counts will be out the window. Batters will be forced to look for the best pitch to hit and it might be the first one they see. That will help stretch the starters out as they will likely be throwing far less pitches. I dont think they'll call the rulebook strikezone. Its stomach to knees now. The letters have been eliminated |
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| Author: | Rod [ Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Super Bullpens |
Kirkwood wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: It's odd though, because pitching is dominating more than ever and the best pitchers are obviously the guys that start, i.e. the guys that are relied upon to cover most of the innings. Eliminating the strike at the ankle will lessen the domination of pitching There isn't really a strike at ankle. But I'm not sure I've ever seen one called at the letters either. The batters have no beef about the strikezone. It's smaller than the rulebook zone, albeit usually lower. The batter has gotten so used to take, take, take, that many guys don't even seem to know what a good pitch to hit is anymore. |
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| Author: | Brick [ Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Super Bullpens |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Especially if MLB goes to an automated plate umpire that is set to call the rulebook strikezone. They should automate the pitchers too.
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| Author: | jimmypasta [ Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Super Bullpens |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Kirkwood wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: It's odd though, because pitching is dominating more than ever and the best pitchers are obviously the guys that start, i.e. the guys that are relied upon to cover most of the innings. Eliminating the strike at the ankle will lessen the domination of pitching There isn't really a strike at ankle. But I'm not sure I've ever seen one called at the letters either. The batters have no beef about the strikezone. It's smaller than the rulebook zone, albeit usually lower. The batter has gotten so used to take, take, take, that many guys don't even seem to know what a good pitch to hit is anymore. Sorry,but I see that ankle strike called every damn game. It really was evident last night especially on Kris Bryant who stands at 6'5. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Super Bullpens |
jimmypasta wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Kirkwood wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: It's odd though, because pitching is dominating more than ever and the best pitchers are obviously the guys that start, i.e. the guys that are relied upon to cover most of the innings. Eliminating the strike at the ankle will lessen the domination of pitching There isn't really a strike at ankle. But I'm not sure I've ever seen one called at the letters either. The batters have no beef about the strikezone. It's smaller than the rulebook zone, albeit usually lower. The batter has gotten so used to take, take, take, that many guys don't even seem to know what a good pitch to hit is anymore. Sorry,but I see that ankle strike called every damn game. It really was evident last night especially on Kris Bryant who stands at 6'5. Those strikes weren't at the ankles. Yeah, the guy on the plate had a low strikezone last night. But it wasn't radical. As soon as deGrom saw he could get a strike call right below the knees he began pounding that area. That's how big league pitchers pitch. |
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| Author: | RFDC [ Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Super Bullpens |
Boilermaker Rick wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Especially if MLB goes to an automated plate umpire that is set to call the rulebook strikezone. They should automate the pitchers too.maybe go to a coach pitch system. |
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| Author: | Don Tiny [ Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Super Bullpens |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: Yes, the starting pitcher is fading. Eventually, you will only expect 3 or 4 innings from the starter. I could see it going the other way too, though. Especially if MLB goes to an automated plate umpire that is set to call the rulebook strikezone. All that standing up there to see pitches and coax walks and get into long counts will be out the window. Batters will be forced to look for the best pitch to hit and it might be the first one they see. That will help stretch the starters out as they will likely be throwing far less pitches. Which, in turn, would probably speed-up the games. |
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| Author: | Brick [ Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Super Bullpens |
RFDC wrote: Boilermaker Rick wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Especially if MLB goes to an automated plate umpire that is set to call the rulebook strikezone. They should automate the pitchers too.maybe go to a coach pitch system.
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| Author: | Matches Malone [ Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Super Bullpens |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: We've seen many, many guys over the years with dominating stuff and dominating numbers who couldn't get the job done when they were asked to get the final three outs. I know Stone has talked about that for years. The last three outs are a different animal. Some guys can handle it psychologically and some can't. Also, there's probably more than a few starting pitchers out there who would make great closers but their ego or the team's won't even allow for the entertaining of the idea. Case in point, Kerry Wood. That guy should've been closing years before it actually happened, as should Andrew Cashner. |
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