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 Post subject: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:30 pm 
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Been telling you that the city will do ANYTHING to get a pro franchise and the offers have been on the table for every sport and teams. Word is, the LV NHL deal is coming!

The Sox were only a handshake deal away!

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:32 pm 
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This is a league that makes terrible self-destructive decisions every year. They don't need Las Vegas for that!

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:35 pm 
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Hockey in Phoenix went well, gotta work well in LV

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:42 pm 
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Nothing could possibly go wrong in a small metro with a transient population, a workforce that works evenings, foreclosures everywhere, and an impending water shortage.

This is interesting, because there have been three cities that have been at the forefront of NHL expansion talk: Quebec City, Las Vegas, and Seattle. A large number of owners want a team in Seattle because it would make a lot of money. Gary Bettman wants a team in Las Vegas because he's a fucking retard. And Quebec City wants the NHL more than the NHL wants them, but the prospective owners of a QC team are subleasing the giant Canadian TV deal that's making everyone in the NHL rich, so they might have to let them back in. In terms of revenue potential, QC has a low ceiling but a high floor, Seattle has a high ceiling but a low floor, and Las Vegas has a low ceiling and a floor near the center of the earth, but the NHL loves to have teams that don't make money because they hedge against the teams that do make a lot of money and thus suppress the salary cap for everyone else. We'll see. I'd be inclined to expand to Seattle and Quebec City, but what do I know.

Also, Las Vegas and Quebec City are both building arenas (Quebec City's is quite a bit further along but they'll have to stop building in winter) while Seattle still can't get its ducks in a row on that new Sonics arena. So perhaps there's a silver lining/ligne d'argent to this terrible news.

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:51 pm 
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one thing Vegas has is conventions every night, multiple conventions are in town all the time. Not that they are all going to see Hockey but it will help and they do have a solid population.

The one problem I do see is that it will part of the MGM and I know locals stay away from the casinos, at least the big ones.

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:02 pm 
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I fear that hockey might not be a Vegas-style destination, though. Unless it's your team in town, do you want to watch the Las Vegas Jackpots play the Calgary Flames? Most American dipshits can't find Calgary on a map. Select American dipshits can't find Canada on a map. And if it is your team in town, how important is it that you go to a game when you can do that back home? Coming to Vegas from Buffalo to watch a hockey game is like going to Paris to eat at TGI Friday's -- though if anyone would do this, it probably would be people from Buffalo. I just worry about banking on road fans. It hasn't served Phoenix or Miami well at all.

Do the demographics line up for hockey? Houston boosters rave about what a huge population Houston has and what an injustice it is for there not to be a team there, but I bet most of that huge population is poor and Hispanic/black and thus of little consequence to the NHL (and the NBA, too; don't kid yourselves). Consider why the league is salivating over Seattle despite an arena with an obstructed-view capacity around 10,000, or Brooklyn and an obstructed-view capacity around 14,000.

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:46 am 
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Reports are now expansion to Las Vegas, Quebec City, Seattle, and a second team in the GTA. This fucking league never learns anything.

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:10 am 
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:lol: :lol: :lol:

This is just so fucking bad. Should be eliminating at least 4 teams, not adding them.


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:11 am 
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oh for the love of

http://nypost.com/2014/10/24/las-vegas- ... -nhl-team/

Quote:
Foley, 70, made his fortune forming home title insurer Fidelity National Financial and consolidating the industry. He also owns 14 West Coast wineries.

One scenario is for Foley to buy the money-losing Arizona Coyotes and move them to Las Vegas, a source said.

Earlier this month, Philadelphia hedge fund manager Andrew Barroway reached a deal to acquire a controlling stake in the Coyotes franchise. Barroway sees flipping the team as a good investment, the source added.

NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman’s half brother, Jeffrey Pollack, has been advising Barroway, sources said. Pollack also lives in Las Vegas.


Larry Brooks broke the story of this Barroway guy buying the Coyotes last month. There might be smoke here. God, this stupid league. They found the one place dumber than Phoenix.

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:22 am 
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I thought their last sale just closed last year? Jesus.

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:30 am 
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They did, but it was a heavily financed deal and they allegedly lost between $24 million and $30 million in one season alone. They sold 51% of the team to a hedgie who was set to buy the Islanders before that owner sold to someone else instead. He bought the Coyotes on the condition that he would drop his lawsuit against the NHL and Isles for breach of contract. You can't beat fun in the old conference room!

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:23 pm 
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bigfan wrote:
Been telling you that the city will do ANYTHING to get a pro franchise and the offers have been on the table for every sport and teams. Word is, the LV NHL deal is coming!

The Sox were only a handshake deal away!


Nearly every NHL expansion team in the South is struggling. They don't need another one.

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:28 pm 
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Take any team in any league, if they wanted to move to LV, the city would say OK, build them an indoor facility and have hookers as sales reps!

The question is, will the leagus allow it. If you go to the bottom of the big 4 leagues, The NHL is in that position, take the bottom team....here ya go LV.

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:50 pm 
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http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2014/11/12/ ... gas-owners

The NHL wants the Maloofs to own a Las Vegas team because fucking of course they do. They never learn.

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:59 pm 
For a game I love so very much, God are they stupid.


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:02 pm 
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It might not work cuz LV won't support it, but could we stop worrying that the games will be corrupt cuz gamblers will get to the team?

Look, if gamblers wanted to do that they wouldn't need the team to be in Vegas.

Plus pro players make too much money to throw a game. I would also imagine in hockey you would need to get 5 or 6 guys on the take. So let's say you can get one, no way you'd get 4 or 5 more. And it would have to be the stars of the team who make millions a year anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:03 pm 
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On second thought, I guess you would just need the goalie. I still don't think it would happen.


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:04 pm 
Beardown wrote:
It might not work cuz LV won't support it, but could we stop worrying that the games will be corrupt cuz gamblers will get to the team?

Look, if gamblers wanted to do that they wouldn't need the team to be in Vegas.

Plus pro players make too much money to throw a game. I would also imagine in hockey you would need to get 5 or 6 guys on the take. So let's say you can get one, no way you'd get 4 or 5 more. And it would have to be the stars of the team who make millions a year anyway.

The only player who could be on the take by himself is the goalie, and goaltending blows enough already that you would never be able to tell.


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:10 pm 
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Do you mean the goaltender for a putative expansion team? Because I would argue that NHL goalies have never been better. They've certainly never been bigger.

Anyway, of all my concerns regarding Las Vegas, gambling is low on the list. I'm more concerned that as far as hockey is concerned, Las Vegas is going to make Florida look like Montreal (which it kinda does when they host Montreal). Owners love crappy expansion teams because they're free money and they hedge against high revenue. But as someone who loves hockey, I want to see cities with a passion for the game get teams, even if they might make too much money for Jeremy Jacobs and MLSE's liking.

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:22 pm 
There's a definite upper echelon of goalies right now. The rest is a pile of "meh". Expansion would just water it down even more.


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:39 pm 
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I agree with that stratification (Quick, Lundqvist, Howard, Rask, Rinne?), but the "meh" tier is still better than a "meh" range has ever been. I don't think there are bad goalies anymore like there used to be. When Ondrej Pavelec shat up the joint last year, it was notable, because it had been a while since a goalie's performance was truly bad: not a low save percentage from low shots on goal, not a high GAA from a really shitty team in front of him, it was just horrific goaltending in and of itself. Before that, that year Steve Mason went haywire was the last time a goalie really fucking sucked. But now that every team has a big motherfucker playing butterfly, the floor is miles higher than it was when you could have a bum in net and just put more past the other team's bum.

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:29 pm 
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bigfan wrote:
I know locals stay away from the casinos, at least the big ones.


The locals go to The Orleans, or they just go to Henderson, NV.

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:39 pm 
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The locals scene in vegas does include the orleans, but it includes many hotels and casinos, it's a target market they go after, much different than the "VEGAS BABY" crowd!

Many offer 10% bonuses in chips, if you cash your paycheck at the casino cage, slots bonuses, free meals, M to Thurs.

Its a subculture of gaming.

Rio drops 50% discounts for locals to eat and drink M -thurs.

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:23 am 
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http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck- ... 41751.html

Quote:
Q. Is there a season ticket base in the Las Vegas valley that will support this team beyond the snow birds and tourists, or is the NHL in LV destined to become a team like the Coyotes or Panthers that rely too heavily on visiting fans to fill the building? Or is the entire concern overrated?

JOHNSON: That concern is not at all overrated. Bottom line: Any professional team that is relying on the strength of the visiting team schedule and/or tourists to make up for any lack of critical mass of hockey-oriented locals is probably leaving a lot to fall outside their control. It’s naïve and a rationalization. And it will be doomed.

With that said, no one I know has seen a business plan, so I don’t know how they are planning to attack revenues.

As far is a season ticket base, who knows? But I can point to the challenges we had to overcome that lead to midnight games and the like.

Just one example: This is largely a single-industry town, and that industry is hospitality/entertainment. Which means if there are 2.5 million people who live here, one subtracts the demographics that would not be likely customer (not an efficient use of resources), then you look at the nature of their jobs (pay scale) and the shifts they work (Vegas is three-shift city), that population number nets down pretty low for who is available with enough disposable income to see the Las Vegas Whatevers take on the Ottawa Senators on Wednesday. And in any market, the “time commitment” that goes with a ticket plan is becoming the hardest sell.

Yes, it’s the NHL and it’s a big deal. But it’s a bigger deal for those in the NHL than those who are not. So, is it a big enough deal to shoulder its way into enough Las Vegas lives to cause them to change their habits?

Time will tell.

I’m not saying it’s not here. I’m only saying that the challenges here are unique, and it will not at all be, “We brought you the NHL,” and they’ll just have to man the phones and take orders.


Quote:
Q. Do you think an NHL team needs significant support from the casinos to excel, i.e. having boxes and tickets gobbled up each game for comps?

JOHNSON: They are going to have to get it… it’s the primary industry where all the money is and most of the workforce lives.

I think they will get some of that. The team will have to make compelling arguments to these prospects that taking their prime customers off their properties and away from injecting revenue into their veins is a calculation that works for them. And will they be able to sustain that value for the long term? Ten years? Twenty? Honeymoons don’t last that long. So they’ll have to get ahead of that.


Apply to baseball as you wish.

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:26 am 
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Complete idiot question:

Are there any league specific rules that would prevent some rich guy from building an NHL Arena/Mega Casino combination? The ticket sales problems are fairly easy to predict, but if that's packaged in the same building as a world class casino etc, it might work.

Or just put another team in Canada and don't worry about all this nonsense.

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:28 am 
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I think there has to be some kind of Chinese wall, or at least the illusion of one. It's why Mike Ilitch owns the Red Wings but Marian Ilitch owns Motor City Casino.

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:31 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
I think there has to be some kind of Chinese wall, or at least the illusion of one. It's why Mike Ilitch owns the Red Wings but Marian Ilitch owns Motor City Casino.


Interesting. I think the same building concept could work great. Something on the scale/size of the Venetian/Palazzo compund.

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:23 pm 
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The Ilitches also own the Tigers, of course, so it could be that the rightfully gambling-averse Major League Baseball dictates this arrangement while the NHL has no principles whatsoever. In fact, that's probably what it is.

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:22 pm 
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Image

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Las Vegas
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:04 pm 
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My 14-yr old son who plays hockey has been rambling to me about the expansion rumors for a while. This was very informative. I cannot for the life of me seeing 4 additional teams added. As great as the sport is, it's the same sport that calls 5 min overtime and goes right to a fucking shoot out. My favorite comparison someone once said was..."how about having a HR Derby to decide a winner in a baseball game?"

NHL being on the bottom in terms of $$ with the 4 major sports, I'd much prefer the NBA to enter Vegas and screw themselves. The fix in that league is blatant and bad enough already.

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