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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:31 am 
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Yes, a hearty congratulations to JORR on a job well done. Thanks to Newper for putting this all together, as I am sure it took a lot of time and effort. Thanks to the 2 folks that voted for me, it is greatly appreciated. Finally, but not last, thanks again to JORR, Hank Scorpio and Terry's Peeps. We stuck with a plan and in the end it worked out. I will leave you with one last word:


WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:36 am 
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Yes, once again a big thank you to newper. Very fun contest.

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:37 pm 
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Congrats Jorr, of the 3 remaining you definitely deserved it. Not to take anything away from Hank and Hawg, but their answers to the final questions struck me as more "happy to be here" than "deserving to be here".


And thanks again Newp, you did a tremendous job and if we meet in person I'll be happy to buy you a beer provided you can correctly pick heads or tails on the coin I flip.


Very excited to see all the votes and some of the behind the scenes stuff from Newp. Feel free to release the transcripts from my votes, I imagine I was the only person who voted with flair.

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:06 pm 
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Some random thoughts --

I think this game worked a lot better at a pace of two challenges a week. The other website I stole this from (whatifsports.com) requires a daily login because you are managing a virtual basketball/baseball/football team and you need to set lineups, etc. This message board doesn't really require that, and doing it three times a week was a lot of work. Also, the hours people get on really vary, so spanning a couple days for the challenges and giving people more than 24 hours to vote was nice.

One side effect of the above was that I had tried to plan out what the challenges would be in advance, but there were so many schedule changes I eventually threw it out. I wanted to get a good mix of the available early year sports, so I knew I would do football early on since it would be going away. For college basketball, I knew primarily Saturday and Wednesdays would be the big days for that, and since I was running on a Fri-Sun-Tue challenge schedule, I did do some hunting for feature games that would be off cycle. Once we went to the two challenges on Weds and Sun, that problem was resolved.

I also came up with the idea of giving the advantages for winning challenges. On the show, you get (typically) food, but that didn't apply here, so I thought boosts towards the next challenge would be useful. I was aiming for them to be about a max of 10% of a bonus and think I did fairly well at crafting them. I also wanted them to be interesting, and have various degress of risk-reward to them. Towards the end, I wanted to start making them a little more "attack" focused in an effort to heat up any brewing feuds. I also wanted to make them somewhat secretive so that you wouldn't know for sure who was doing the attacking... not sure that really came into play at all, and I would probably spend some time thinking of challenge structures and advantages ahead of time (and proofread enough not to put rebounds when I meant blocked shots.) For the challenges, I thought that it was important to mix the type of challenge as well as the sport. I also wasn't too worried about making any major mistakes in the challenge structures as far as valuing teams or players -- each Survivor contestant could take advantage of those inequalities as equally as anybody else, so it really came down to contestant preparation.

One of the early challenges to me was the number of people who weren't submitting challenges/votes... it weighs down the game and makes some of the eliminations pretty easy. Who wouldn't be able to get a team together to vote off Eaglo Jeff when he hasn't done anything in the game in the past week... it awarded teams by giving them a free pass just for having a non-player in their team. I think a lot of that was because people signed up for the game without really knowing what it was -- I think Eaglo admitted that, and I don't want to single him out here because several other people said the same thing. If we ever did it again, we would probably get less sign and bails. I did one of the single player challenges earlier than I was planning in an effort to give some of those people strikes and get them out of the game. These DQ'd people also made it more of a challenge to plan the merge timeline, but I think that worked out ok in the end.

The biggest mistake that I think I made was allowing early voting submissions. Someone, and I forget who at this point, said they would not be around to vote because they would be out of town but they also did not want a strike counted against them. I said it would be OK, as long as they provided two names in the event that the first name had immunity. I knew I had a problem when JORR sent in the vote the next time. We were at 8 players remaining, and I knew by then that JORR was a pretty intelligent player due to his hidden idol discovery prowess. He knew that the tiebreaker went to the earliest vote, and by voting ahead of the results being posted, he would be able to break that tie. I had set a precedent by allowing early votes, so to not allow it seemed to be the wrong thing to do. I then put in a rule that the vote would be randomized so that it wouldn't necessarily be the first vote played -- but really, the tiebreaker rule was broken. My apologies to shakes as he bore the brunt of this rule. I really like the suggestion that the rule should be broken by the score in the challenge. I would 100% adopt that rule going forward. I'm not sure how I would handle group challenge submissions, I'd have to give that some more thought.

One other thing I didn't fully think through was the merge from four teams to two. I had originally thought that we would just merge two sets of teams together, but the more I thought about it, the more i thought it was unfair. I assumed (and this may not be totally correct) that players were more or less forming alliances within their own teams and that once we combined, those alliances would be strong enough to force the weaker team out. For example, the Monkeys were down to just four players remaining at the merge -- if they merged with Shake That, then you've got a situation where Shake That can just pick them off one by one. I thought by randomly placing people in the two teams we would have a more even distribution of alliances, and create an environment for alliances to perhaps join together between the two teams. It would be interesting to see what would have happened had we joined teams together though.

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:15 pm 
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Cmon Newp, how bout some real insight. We already know that Eaglo is an asshole.


Regarding the tie breaker and your proposal that challenge scores be the tie breaker I don't think that would work either since we vote AFTER the challenge results are in. That way, people can see the scores in advance and tailor their votes accordingly, i.e. always vote for the guy with the lowest score. A better solution would be to have an additional challenge between the tied members similar to what they do on the tv show. That way you can't just circumvent the tie breaker by voting for the guy who got the lowest challenge score.

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:17 pm 
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For a first time, it was really AWESOME.

If you do it again, the tiebeaker thing does need a better resolution.

But overall oustanding. Thanks newper.

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:23 pm 
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shakes wrote:
Cmon Newp, how bout some real insight. We already know that Eaglo is an asshole.

Regarding the tie breaker and your proposal that challenge scores be the tie breaker I don't think that would work either since we vote AFTER the challenge results are in. That way, people can see the scores in advance and tailor their votes accordingly, i.e. always vote for the guy with the lowest score. A better solution would be to have an additional challenge between the tied members similar to what they do on the tv show. That way you can't just circumvent the tie breaker by voting for the guy who got the lowest challenge score.

Good point -- that would still be easily gamed. The problem with doing an additional challenge is that it throws the timeline off. Survivor gets to film everything in advance and edit it all down as they see fit, but we're doing it live.

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:24 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
For a first time, it was really AWESOME.

If you do it again, the tiebeaker thing does need a better resolution.

But overall oustanding. Thanks newper.


This

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:25 pm 
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No complaints here. The 2 strikes I got were completely my fault.

Thought everything was done really well. Next time around I'm gettin' me one of them idols...

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:27 pm 
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Krazy Ivan wrote:
No complaints here. The 2 strikes I got were completely my fault.

Thought everything was done really well. Next time around I'm gettin' me one of them idols...


Me too.

Although next time, when JORR gives me an idol I'll vote him out next.

:D

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:35 pm 
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Well done newper

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:47 pm 
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newper wrote:
Good point -- that would still be easily gamed. The problem with doing an additional challenge is that it throws the timeline off. Survivor gets to film everything in advance and edit it all down as they see fit, but we're doing it live.




Wouldn't a challenge set for the very next night work within the time line?

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:36 pm 
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shakes wrote:
newper wrote:
Good point -- that would still be easily gamed. The problem with doing an additional challenge is that it throws the timeline off. Survivor gets to film everything in advance and edit it all down as they see fit, but we're doing it live.

Wouldn't a challenge set for the very next night work within the time line?

It probably would in the two challenge/week format. I'd probably make it a standard challenge that applies to all sports -- something like pick the winner of these ten games, the person who picks the most right wins... something like that.

Here's the votes:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?hl= ... utput=html

This is what I used to keep track of things... to start at the beginning, go to the Four Teams tab, and work your way back to the front.

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:40 pm 
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Wow. I had assumed that Krazy Ivan had simply not voted when I was taken out. Instead, after telling me that he would vote with me he voted against me.

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:42 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Wow. I had assumed that Krazy Ivan had simply not voted when I was taken out. Instead, after telling me that he would vote with me he voted against me.

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:45 pm 
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Rick, you have to believe me. I swear that I never, ever, thought you would find out...

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:46 pm 
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Krazy Ivan wrote:
Rick, you have to believe me. I swear that I never, ever, thought you would find out...
Well, either way you screwed me. :lol: I just didn't know you actively did.

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:52 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Krazy Ivan wrote:
Rick, you have to believe me. I swear that I never, ever, thought you would find out...
Well, either way you screwed me. :lol: I just didn't know you actively did.



Not a wise decision on my part. I thought I would become a target if I didn't do it. Please forgive me...

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:57 pm 
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Krazy Ivan wrote:
Not a wise decision on my part. I thought I would become a target if I didn't do it. Please forgive me...
It's cool. You thought it was your best move.

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:58 pm 
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Hey Ivan, how many votes do you have over there. For some reason in the end, I don't think it will quite be enough. :D

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:03 pm 
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I'm having a horrible day. Can't stop pissing people off.

So this is what it sounds like when doves cry...

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:06 pm 
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So Douchebag was the disloyal Shake That member who voted for IMU. I guess Hank didn't doctor that e-mail after all.

Also, I can't figure out why Don Tiny just didn't go along with BRick and I and our plan to take out jimmypasta first and Spaulding next if he wanted Spaulding gone. I guess that's the thing about this game- it was hard to know who was telling the truth.

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:10 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
So Douchebag was the disloyal Shake That member who voted for IMU. I guess Hank didn't doctor that e-mail after all.

Also, I can't figure out why Don Tiny just didn't go along with BRick and I and our plan to take out jimmypasta first and Spaulding next if he wanted Spaulding gone. I guess that's the thing about this game- it was hard to know who was telling the truth.



I started playing very paranoid after a while. Thought Rick was going to turn on me. I actually turned out to be right about Terry's Peeps, but it was too late by then. I would change that if I could do it again...

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:15 pm 
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Yeah, it was me, and it didn't even matter. I made a play based on some bad information from someone that I'll leave anonymous. Since my vote meant nothing due to the immunity idol being played, I just decided to stay quiet and stick with my alliance. Had the immunity idol not been played, my vote still wouldn't have mattered since Peeps would have been eliminated. It was a bad idea based on really bad information, and it really had no effect on the game.

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:32 pm 
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immessedup17 wrote:
But you then lied about it multiple times.

Hank at least was upfront about when he voted for me and when he didn't.

Pretty shitty, man.

edit: Sorry I didn't trust you the entire time Hank. I really wanted to, but I thought Shake That was tight also.



Um.......just a game.

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:33 pm 
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immessedup17 wrote:
But you then lied about it multiple times.

Hank at least was upfront about when he voted for me and when he didn't.

Pretty shitty, man.

edit: Sorry I didn't trust you the entire time Hank. I really wanted to, but I thought Shake That was tight also.

I didn't want to cut ties, cuz then I would be finished. It worked out fairly well for me, just not well enough.

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:37 pm 
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Plus, the Hank doctoring emails story was pretty hilarious, I didn't want to debunk it. (I'm not even the person who made that accusation, I just ran with it to protect myself.)

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:41 pm 
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Not one vote for me until I was eliminated. cool...

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:43 pm 
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Bottom line.

It was fun. Newper did a great job.

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 Post subject: Re: CSFMB Survivor!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:45 pm 
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Lying is all part of the game. Good for douchebag especially for not ruining the game for the current players by talking about it.

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