So you admit the statistic is bad? Thanks for playing.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

What about DaWhite? There is no comparison. The Bulls without Rose are much better than the Magic without DaWhite.

What is wrong with you?

I don't know. There is no statistic that can measure what is wrong with me.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I would vote Dwight Howard over LBJ in the voting. The Magic are at a spot where everyone thought they would finish at. The Bulls will be a #1 seed, which nobody predicted. I think that's why you give it to Rose.

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"Advanced stats" show Watson, Asik, Brewer, Gibson, and Deng are the best defensive combination in basketball this year. Just so you all know.

As of right now, Carmelo's EWA is 17th in the league, at a 13.3. Chauncey is like 50th with 7.8 wins.


Whether that helps or hurts EWA is still stupid. Using a single example to prove/disprove EWA is silly. You're better than that.

That could actually be true. It's fun watching the Bulls bench completely dismantle teams defensively.

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So you are giving a player an award based on incorrect team predictions?

I'm giving Rose an award because his team has exceeded expectations.

One could even call the Heat's regular season a disappointment based on expectations. Should awards be given to players who didn't live up to expectations?

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No one is saying LeQueen isn't the best player in the league. I don't think that can be disputed. The best player rarely wins the MVP award. This season he hasn't been the most valuable player. Rose has been for the best team in the East.

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Why do people who buy into unproven or unproveable statistical measures get so mad when someone asks them to show actual reasons why it is anything more than a bunch of numbers?

Feel free to tell me why I should buy into that statistic as mattering.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Feel free to give me a single piece of proof that Rose has had a better year than LBJ and DaWhite. All I am getting is reasons based off stupid predictions by media members.

Lebron is the best player in the league. Not just by reputation, but by the year he is having. And it's note even close.

Yep, those 5 would hold a team to 77.4 PPG while scoring 96.1 over 48 minutes, statistically speaking of course. The Bulls best offensive team would remarkably not include Rose where Korver, Boozer Brewer, Watson, and Gibson would average 130 a night and give up 119.6. The "best unit" would be Rose, Deng, Asik, Gibson, and Brewer averaging 114.5 and giving up 86.5

http://basketballvalue.com/index.php

The reason I "buy in" to EWA, is because I am given absolutely nothing more substantial to lean on. Until I see something better, I'll stick to what makes sense to me and takes in to account far more than "gut feeling" and "eye tests" do.

What part of "Stats for team sports suck and are inaccurate" do you not get?

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011

The award is not for who had the "better year", the award is for who is most valuable.

I asked the question a couple times, and you never answered:
Which team would be worse if you subtract the player from said team? The Heat would probably still be a top 5 team in the East, and the Bulls would probably be a lottery team based on the other injuries the team dealt with. Are you disagreeing with that statement?

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I see. You are "The world is flat because that is the best idea" kind of guys. I prefer the actual proof that came when it was calculated the the world was spherical rather than simply the best bad method.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Well hey this "1 Year Adj. +/- (Adjusted Plus-Minus)" makes sense to me.

Therefore Lamarcus Aldridge should be MVP.

Where is the proof that Rose is better this year?

If you guys don't like stats, that's fine. I understand. We can move on from stats. What else can we call on besides dumpy reporters being bad at analyzing teams?



And if we want to rely on "exceeding expectations," does that mean MJ shouldn't have been the MVP? His team was almost always expected to win it all, or at least compete.

I just can't justify saying Lebron is the most valuable. You could make the case for Howard with the Magic, but the Heat would still be so good if you subtract Lebron. Can you make a case that Lebron is the most valuable to his team out of the 3 players we are discussing?

You can cite the EWA stat however many times you want, but I just think you can't apply it to the game of basketball. There's way too many factors that change in the game when you add/remove a player that the statistics cannot account for.

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So if stats can't account for it, what can? Your opinion?

Aren't we all just talking about opinions here? Or do you think there's a statistic that comprehensively proves who is MVP?

You can call my thoughts "gut feelings" and media members expectations "dumb", but the differences in what the concensus of what everyone thought would happen this season has to mean something. Can you find ANY media piece that picked the Bulls to be in the position they are in right now? I don't remember reading any. How else can you explain the Bulls' success, espeically with the major injuries they have dealt with? Would you consider the Heat's season above or below expectations? I think most would consider their performance disappointing based on the expectations. All of the big 3 were healthy and only missed minimal time (and all at different times).

Statistics can't be the sole way to vote on this award. Would someone who averaged a triple/double and played for a lottery team be deserving to win a MVP award? I don't think they would.

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No, I do not think there is a be-all-end all statistic.


I do not find it an easy thing to predict how many wins a team would lose without a major star. I have no personal method to determine that. I do not watch the Magic every night. I do not watch the Heat every night. I could say "yea I think the Magic would suck more without DaWhite," but that isn't based on anything of value.

I just put more stock in opinions with some sort of backing above and beyond a random gut feeling.

The MVP award has rarely been given to the best player in the league or the guy who has the best stats. It has usually been given to the guy who was the most important player for their team for that season. A writer that votes is giving there opinion on who they believe was the most important. Preseason analysis/place in the standings/injuries are things that usually factor in this decision. You may be the type of voter that woud base it on who the best player is or a newly created stat. That's fine. Fact is very few voters do that. If they did guys like MJ and Kobe would have more trophies. The Bulls record and the fact that Rose is th primary reason they have it is the reason many feel he deserve it. If he was having the same season and the Bulls were 6th in the East he wouldn't win it.

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I guess I don't like that because the entire team is better, not just Derrick. The Bulls, as a team, are very very good. DRose is obviously their best player, but he is not the only reason they are awesome. They are the best defensive team in the league, Deng has had an awesome year and Thibs is the real deal.

I guess the MVP to me should be more of an individual award, and not that of the team. Sure the Bulls are the "surprise team of the year," but to me that shouldn't mean the best player on that team automatically gets the MVP.

Take Derrick Rose off the Bulls and you have the Eastern Conference's version of the Los Angeles Clippers. Take LeBron James off the Miami Heat, they still have Dwyane Wade...What really pisses me off is ESPN Radio's national midday host Colin Cowherd, who this morning had the nerve to suggest that LeBron's stats blow Derrick away, and that LeBron "is the face of the league." Gimme a break! Colin's the latest buttwad in Bristol, CT to have the nerve to say that D. Rose isn't the NBA's MVP and mentioned Derrick in the same breath with Allen Iverson!