Take Derrick Rose off the Bulls and you have the Eastern Conference's version of the Los Angeles Clippers. Take LeBron James off the Miami Heat, they still have Dwyane Wade...What really pisses me off is ESPN Radio's national midday host Colin Cowherd, who this morning had the nerve to suggest that LeBron's stats blow Derrick away, and that LeBron "is the face of the league." Gimme a break! Colin's the latest buttwad in Bristol, CT to have the nerve to say that D. Rose isn't the NBA's MVP and mentioned Derrick in the same breath with Allen Iverson!

It's a subjective award. All awards in sports are subjective. You could probably find a person in at least 10 cities that could make the case why their team best player should be MVP.

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One more thing from Colin Cowherd...He called the talk about Derrick Rose and the MVP Award a "media creation" on his ESPN Radio show "The Herd", which airs in video form weekdays 9a-Noon on ESPNU, DIRECTV 208. A media creation?

There are many problems with PER, including an undervaluation of defensive performance. I've also never been entirely satisfied with the weights Hollinger applies to the offensive statistics he does in fact measure. There are loads of models you can rely on, Bucky Chris; this is not simply a matter of Hollinger's stats vs. pure intution. Why are PER-based statistics more desirable than WP48 for instance? I do not mean to endorse Berri's work here and it should be noted that Rose does not appear significantly better under those metrics. The main case for Rose, as his been articulated earlier in this thread, is that there are good reasons for not relying on productivity statistics alone in determining MVP votes. I would probably lean towards Howard, but I think Rose is clearly at least second.

I definitely don't believe PER is flawless, I'm just very familiar with it because I have read his book. I'm not familiar with WP48 either, so it could be a good system, I just haven't ever explored it. Bothers me people on here dismiss Hollinger without even understanding how PER is calculated, but that's for another time.

That is a great article, raising valid points on both sides. The defensive argument is certainly valid, and I think DaWhite and LBJ are both much better defenders than Rose. But the article still relies on "what the team 'should' be doing" in the standings and I just can't get on board with that. Even though NBA is obviously the easiest sport for a single guy to dominate, it's still a team sport. Can't put all of that on LBJ, especially since statistically he is still having the best year.


That's a great article by Hollinger too. Hadn't seen that one.

I also thought this was a a decent article making the case for Rose (surprisingly so, given the site it's hosted on). The guy is clearly a big Bulls fan, but he raises some good points about the history of the award and efficiency stats that Rose for which Rose sometimes gets criticized.

I often find that people who rely heavily on statistics to prove their point really haven't watched the games (in general, not saying you specifically Chris although it may be true, don't know) and use it as a crutch because they think whatever derived numbers are the final word.

As has been pointed out, whether or not you use a particular statistic or not, it's still just your opinion and subjective anyway. I think "gut feeling" DOES count for something

I was arguing w/ my friend the other day about the Bulls bench vs. other top teams' benches and he rattling off CJ Watson's numbers and Asik's numbers- which if you just look at basic numbers are not all that impressive. But anyone who has watched a fair number of games this year can see that their bench as a whole has been nothing short of dominating.

I do not watch every game, which is why I rely on stats. My guess is most people who think the Magic would be better without DaWhite than Rose and the Bulls isn't watching much of the Magic, though too.

Didn't think it was possible for me to hate LBJ any more than I did:

LeBron: Derrick Rose in lead for MVP
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By Michael Wallace
ESPN.com
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WASHINGTON -- This season's MVP debate is settled as far as LeBron James is concerned.

James said he believes Derrick Rose is rightfully the frontrunner for the league's top individual award and that everyone else falls in line behind the Chicago Bulls point guard.

“
What he's done for that team, with all the injuries they have and them being first in the Eastern Conference -- they're playing some really good basketball.
”
-- LeBron James on Derrick Rose
"I think [it's] Derrick Rose," James said before the Heat's game Wednesday night against the Washington Wizards. "What he's done for that team, with all the injuries they have and them being first in the Eastern Conference -- they're playing some really good basketball."

James was named MVP each of the past two seasons but has said throughout the year that his chances to win in a third time would be tarnished by his move to the Miami Heat to join Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh. James reiterated that notion Wednesday night.

Rose is averaging 25 points, 7.9 assists and 4.2 rebounds for the Bulls (53-20), who entered Wednesday with a two-game lead over Boston and 2½ games ahead of Miami atop the East standings. James is averaging 26.9 points, 7.5 rebounds and 6.9 assists for the Heat. He is also shooting a career-high 50.4 percent from the field this season.

James believes his production is strong enough to validate a third consecutive MVP trophy. But he also said Rose seems to be garnering more support among the media block that votes on the award. In addition to Rose and James, Kobe Bryant, Dwight Howard and Dirk Nowitzki are considered the top candidates for MVP this season.

"Right now, statistically, it's probably one of the best years I've had," James said. "But we'll see. The media kind of controls it. You've got some guys here that have done their job also. At one point, I thought Dirk was also [worthy] until he got hurt. But Derrick Rose definitely has gotten a lot of the exposure and a lot of the media attention because of the work he's done. He's playing some unbelievable basketball."

Follow Michael Wallace on Twitter: @http://twitter.com/WallaceHeatNBA

you calling Howard DaWhite really fucking pisses me off for some unknown reason

EPP (Eyerolls per post)

Of course you have take into account section factor, which is why im partial to Section Adjusted EPP




SHOW ME THE DATA BITCH!

Rack me, Im out

UNWAR saying the Magic would be Cav like

WAR Hedo and Richardson being more talented than the entire Cavs roster combined

Dwight Howard goes up against a lot of bad centers every single night. Because of that I can't look at him as an MVP. I would give it to LeQueen if it were not for the season Rose is having. Howard isn't even in the conversation when you talk about centers of the past 15 to 20 years.

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You never miss your wealth, till your well went dry
Seem like only yesterday, you were here smiling
Now you gone away, but I know you in a better place
No traces of you, what can I do?
Alone and confused

It's da white around your mouth

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I agree with your first point about the MVP race. Keep in mind about D.Howard though, he is only 25.

Best centers last 20 years:
1. Hakeem
2. Shaq
3. Ewing/Admiral
4. Admiral/Ewing
5. Dwight?

Feel like I'm forgetting someone... Yao can't be in the discussion really. Not Vlade at all.... Hmm... Jeff Brickowski?

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Rik Smits
Yao Ming
Brad Daugherty
Dikembe Mutumbo
Alonzo Mourning

I may be missing a few.

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Am I allowed to include Moses Malone?

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20 years ago he was pretty washed up. I wouldn't include him.

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If we're talking 30 years back maybe. But that opens it up too much.

Alonzo is ahead of Dwight at this point, but just barely. Dwight is better offensively at 25 than Dikembe. Dwight would make Rick Smits retire from the NBA and go play in the Swiss League.

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Smits was able to play well against many of the guys that are listed above. If Shaq and Ewing didn't force him to quit I doubt the less offensively talented (by far) Howard would give him fits.

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Sabonis played in the NBA when he was past his prime but he was still pretty good and gave Shaq fits.

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grizzly adams did have a beard

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

Apparently so did Thor Heyerdahl.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Smits was maybe as offensively talented as Shaq and Ewing. Smits Defense was understandably european. His greatest defensive strength was his 7'3" frame.

Shaq was offensively effective. His overall skillset wasn't too varied, but he was arguably the most effective center since Wilt. I'm really not trying to take anything away from Shaq. His dominance is unmatched post 2000.

Ewing was a better Rick Smits IMO. I actually haven't watched much mid 80's Ewing to have that informed of an opinion.

I just think Dwight will keep improving into his late 20's on the offensive end, and if he ends up on the Lakers the discussion could become a serious debate. His defense is already on an elite level. I hope it bothers him that he's known as just a dunker.

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I don't think he does. From what I've read and heard he doesn't like to listen. I think he's cut from the same cloth as LeQueen.

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Nobody has called him Dan Le Retard yet? I expect more (or less) from this message board.

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Yea I saw that, but the headline is all people are going to care about. That should about seal it for DRose. And don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled DRose is winning it. I'm a huge fan... love the guy. And I strongly dislike LBJ. But oh well.