If Memphis refuses to lower their asking price, I think going after a player like Shareef Abdur Rahim would make some sense, though I don't like that he's under contract for 3 more seasons with some injury concerns. When he's healthy, he can put up some pretty good numbers, and I think he's healthy right now, just stuck in Sacramento.

We could probably get him without giving up more than a Sweetney and a 2nd round pick, it would give us good depth in the front court with Wallace, PJ Brown, and Rahim plus we can mix in players like Tyrus Thomas, and Malik Allen.

I doubt this would win the Eastern Conference, and they probably wouldn't get any farther in the playoffs by making this move, but if they trade Deng or Gordon for Gasol, I feel like we're getting better, but we're still creating another hole, and without the draft choice from the Knicks, that is probably our team for the forseeable future.

I don't dislike Shareef necessarily, but I don't think he makes a big impact either. Would have loved to have him 4 years ago. If they could bring him on as a role player for a small price, I wouldn't have a big issue with it, though his salary does make me nervous. He could turn out to be a really shitty contract for them down the road. Gasol trade or not, Pax will have to be very judicious in how he spends money. Their payroll is going to really blow up the year after next. You can't afford to have $6 mil worth of dead weight at that point. Maybe Shareef will still be useful 2 years from now, but there's a good chance he won't be.

From today's Daily Herald:
Does a Bulls trade for Grizzlies’ Gasol really make sense?
The state of the Bulls heading into the all-star break isn’t much different from having an outdated kitchen.
Sure, a significant remodeling is necessary. But you may get halfway into it and find yourself longing for the days when contractors hadn’t invaded your home.
The Bulls’ schedule during the final 28 games gets much easier and they have a recent history of finishing strong under coach Scott Skiles. So reaching the preseason goal of 50 wins isn’t out of the question. Neither is a first-round playoff loss to Toronto.
The immediate task at hand for general manager John Paxson is deciding whether to make a major move before Thursday’s trade deadline for Memphis 7-footer Pau Gasol or someone else.
Gasol has asked to be traded, the Grizzlies are interested in trimming salary, and the Bulls have plenty of young players, expiring contracts and draft picks to offer.
But does a deal make sense for the Bulls if they have to give up Ben Gordon, Luol Deng or Kirk Hinrich in the process? It’s a tough call, so let’s examine both arguments:
Pro: Gasol’s stat line compares favorably to Tim Duncan’s. Gasol is averaging 20.2 points, 9.2 rebounds and 2.3 blocks, compared to 20.4 points, 10.7 rebounds and 2.3 blocks for Duncan. Gasol has the higher field-goal and free-throw percentage of the two players.
The Barcelona, Spain, native is a smart, unselfish player who usually looks to pass or drive to the basket before launching one of his unsightly one-handed jumpers. Gasol could conceivably provide a low-post scoring option for the Bulls and make life easier for the perimeter players.
Gasol, 26, isn’t the greatest rebounder or defender, but he would be playing next to Ben Wallace. To get someone with those credentials, the Bulls will have to give back something significant.
Con: The Bulls may be able to add an effective big man this summer while still keeping their nucleus intact. The Knicks have improved and could end up making the playoffs, but as of today, New York’s first-round pick would be No. 10.
Once the Bulls swap places with the Knicks as dictated in the Eddy Curry trade, could they find a suitable post player in Florida’s Al Horford? Washington’s Spencer Hawes? Pittsburgh’s Aaron Gray? Brazil’s Tiago Splitter?
Pro: Paxson needs to do something. The Bulls are woefully undersized, and no NBA team can win big without some height.
Con: Trading one of their starting guards for Gasol would only create a gaping hole in the Bulls’ lineup. Neither Gordon nor Hinrich is all-star caliber just yet, but both have talents that are difficult to find - Gordon as a fourth-quarter scorer and Hinrich as a scorer who can also defend.
The Bulls haven’t seen enough from Thabo Sefolosha to feel confident they’ll reach the NBA Finals this year or next with the 6-foot-7 rookie playing major minutes.
And Chris Duhon is shooting 57.7 percent from 3-point range in February after going 4-for-30 from long distance in January. The Bulls never know what they’ll get from him.
Pro: It would be easier to replace a perimeter player in the draft or free agency than find a skilled 7-footer. Parting with Gordon, Hinrich or Deng would be painful, but the Bulls would survive.
Con: Deng may end up playing in twice as many All-Star Games as Gasol. The third-year small forward has some flaws in his game, but he’s made rapid improvement already and won’t turn 22 until April 16.
Primarily, Deng has been a spot-up shooter. When he catches the ball and fires a quick jumper with no dribble, Deng can stroke it like Rick Barry. He’s not as good yet putting the ball on the floor but has shown a willingness to both attack the basket and use his long arms to develop some post moves.
On top of that, Deng’s work ethic, personality and attitude are all at the top of the charts. Letting him go now when he has a chance to become a top-flight star is a mistake.
Pro: The Bulls have some depth at small forward. They could lose Deng but still have Andres Nocioni, Tyrus Thomas and Viktor Khryapa at that spot.
Con: Bigger prizes may come available. Kevin Garnett can opt out of his deal and become a free agent in 2008. With Minnesota showing little improvement, many experts believe this summer is when Garnett will finally be dealt.
Pro: Gasol is four years younger than Garnett and has played in 500 fewer NBA games.
Con: Gasol is not a ticket to the Finals. His Grizzlies have gone 0-12 in the playoffs the past three years.
Paxson does seem to have a major move on his mind. He could have easily acquired 6-10 Melvin Ely from Charlotte this week but chose to hang on to all of the Bulls’ expiring contracts.
Evidence seems to suggest there isn’t much chance of landing Gasol without giving up one of the Bulls’ three top scorers. Memphis could always just keep Gasol, after all.
But the Grizzlies are also in a competitive race for lottery balls, and this isn’t the year to miss out on Greg Oden, Kevin Durant or Joakim Noah.
The Bulls could offer two players from among Nocioni, Thomas, Duhon and Sefolosha, perhaps a pair of future first-rounders and maybe even take a bad contract, such as Brian Cardinal, off the Grizzlies’ hands. So there’s always a chance.

Wait, we can get Pau Gasol and my Purdue guy? Get it done!

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The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

So what is his strength, then? He passes up paths to the hoop pretty frequently in favor of the mid-range shot, which accounts for the majority of his points. And his post-up game is still embryonic at best. So if he has a greater strength than the mid-range jump shot, he's got an odd way of showing it. And since his athleticism isn't overwhelming right now, I think it's fair to say that it never will be. Players don't suddenly become more athletic in their mid-20s. Rather, they become more skilled as they learn how to develop an arsenal around their raw talent. I largely concur with the assessment of Deng's game posted by BD and originally published in the Herald:



To me, Deng is a shooter who lacks the athleticism necessary to make defenses fear him or coaches strategize in response to his ability. Gasol has already demonstrated that he creates matchup problems for opposing teams and would be even more effective playing on the Bulls. While Deng has a rare work ethic and attitude, Gasol has rare skills. The Bulls are not likely to be in a position to acquire such a player at any other point in the near future and should thus make the trade for him, even if it means sacrificing a good player in Deng.

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Interesting. I would submit that the opposite is true. There are legitimate reasons to believe that both Kevin Garnett and Jermaine O'Neal may be available this summer. And given your recent endorsement of Zach Randolph as well, I'm surprised to hear you say that it's Gasol or bust. Furthermore, if you're simply referring to the Bulls’ situation (roster, contracts, etc), there are ways around that, too. For one thing, you've got the option of exercising a sign & trade with Andres Nocioni, and a front-loaded contract would go a long way in assisting the Bulls with balancing incoming salaries. Moreover, if Pax determines that a trade deadline deal is not imminent, a crafty general manager might target a dead weight veteran with 1.5 years remaining on a bloated contract, thus leaving him in the same position next year.

As for a breakdown on Luol’s game, I’ll be back later this afternoon to share some thoughts. I’m a bit busy at work right now, and this is about all I can squeeze out at the moment. Just a teaser, though, if Deng’s game is as uninspiring as you suggest, then why would Memphis want to give away a talent with such rare skills for him?

As you've pointed out, it wouldn't be a 1-for-1 deal. The Bulls would give Deng and probably a first-round pick, plus Brown's expiring contract.

As for Garnett and O'Neal, yes, "maybe" they will be available this summer. We've also heard these rumors in the past, too, with nothing materializing. And even if they do become available, who's to say that the asking price for those players will be any lower? Will Paxson balk at their asking prices, too? And if so, where does that leave the team? Without a big man and with another season wasted, that's where. But we know for sure that Gasol is available now. And with Wallace's signing, Paxson basically announced that the Bulls were trying to win a title ASAP. So why not make the deal you know you can make now? That is, unless Paxson has already lost faith in Wallace as an impact player, and there's certainly reason to believe he has.

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- he runs the floor like a deer
- he is an excellent cutter/slasher
- he is efficient (3rd best FG% among SFs in the NBA)
- he rebounds (3rd best RPG among SFs in the NBA)
- he passes well and has good hands



Everyone is available for a price. And I'll say it again, there's absolutely no reason for the Bulls to bid against themselves. If there's not another team out there that will top an offer of PJ, Tyrus, and the pick, then why give them Deng? And if they decline the Bulls' offer without receiving a better one, then he's not truly on the block.



Circumstances have changed. Both players have opt out clauses in their contracts, and I say with great confidence that neither player is content with the status of their current teams.



Both players, particularly Garnett, are older than Pau and have significantly more miles on them. More importantly, Gasol is signed for another 4 years. The Grizzlies have leverage in this department because Pau can't take his ball and go home. Both Garnett & Jermaine have that luxury.



That's a logical assumption, but not necessarily the truth of the situation. For one thing, the majority of this team is still quite young, so to expect them to win a title now is not the most realistic of expectations. The bigger issue, though, is that the Bulls only had the opportunity of cap space this past offseason (or next, had they passed on Wallace). Once Luol and Gordon receive extensions on their rookie contracts (effective next offseason, but not affecting the cap until 2008), the Bulls would have no chance to be players in the free agent market. I'd argue it's every bit as much of "smoke 'em while you got 'em" as it is "win a title ASAP".

That's it for now. Love the banter, but I've had a long day, and it's Miller time. Enjoy the All-Star festivities. Hopefully, Tyrus wins the dunk competition, shows Jerry West a thing or two, and this time next week we're looking at a line-up of:

Hinrich
Gordon
Deng
Gasol
Wallace

Anyone hearing those rumors about Jason Kidd being traded to the Lakers ? Peter Vescey is one 'source', but David Aldridge is another who I do respect....Anyways, nothing done yet, and we'll see if anything actually happens, but this is the proposed trade I'm seeing:

Kwame Brown
Aaron Mckie
Smush Parker
Brian Cook
1st rounder

for

Jason Kidd
Jason Collins


Bringing this back to the Bulls for a second....IF this is true, the Lakers are getting Kidd for nothing, just a bunch of easily replacable role players, but, with Memphis' demands, the Bulls are being asked to give up 1/2 their team. I realize every team's asking prices are going to be different, but this is crazy!

That's Bucket's point, from what I've been able to tell. If Memphis really wants to move Gasol, their asking price will have to come down.

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

Well, by efficiency I think you mean he's a really good mid-range jump shooter. As for the other attributes you mention, I agree that he does a lot of different things well. But these qualities don't add up to a dominant player. If he keeps getting bigger and stronger, maybe he can become a true game-changing player with his rebounding ability. To me, though, that's an uncertain prospect.



I see the logic of your point. But I also think it's valid to "overpay" to some degree for a guy who changes the way teams will have to play you. Maybe Paxon doesn't think Gasol is that guy, though.



While I would never claim to know as much about other teams' salary cap/trading situation as you do, but I find it hard to believe that the Bulls would be able to get Garnett or O'Neal for Nocioni + garbage just because these guys are "unhappy" with their current teams. Do you really believe the Wolves will be forced to give Garnett away for nothing? He's getting old, but he's still a hellacious player, and I think teams other than the Bulls will recognize that fact. I guess only time will tell on this one, but I rather try for Gasol now than gamble on Garnett or O'Neal's future availability. I do wonder, though, if Paxon hasn't fallen in love with "his" guys and if he will see any trade that requires giving one or more of them up as "too high" an asking price.



My assumption may not be true now, but it was true from Paxon's perspective when he signed Wallace. If he didn't think the Bulls could contend, why would he get rid of Chandler? Wouldn't it have made more sense to keep him and let him grow with his "young core". Wallace won't be a key player on this team when Deng, Gordon, etc. hit their peak years.

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Bucket's right in that the Bulls are going to have to give up Gordon or Deng in a trade, but I wonder if that's even necessary when we see all-stars around the league constantly getting traded for nowhere near their value, and basically for draft picks, and future cap space.

But the Bulls would never have traded for someone like Iverson. They only want "good character" guys, who typically are harder to acquire (that is, they have higher asking prices) than players who have "worn out their welcome" where they're currently playing.

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He does have a smooth jumper, but I still refuse to concede that is the best he has to offer. He goes to the hoop hard, Midge. He might not handle the ball like a guard, but the guy gets to the rim with authority. As his game improves, I expect him to get there more often, and with more intensity. Also, the kid is currently pulling down over 7 boards a night. His body is still filling out, and I don't think 9 a game is an unreasonable expectation down the road.



Of course they're not going to get either one for a collection of garbage. I didn't mean to give the impression that Garnett or Jermaine would be given away. I would expect the price to be in the neighborhood of a Gasol acquisition. And while I put Pau & Jermaine in a similar category, Garnett is in a class by himself in this argument.

Quite naturally, Minny/Indy aren't going to do us any favors simply because the players are unhappy. They're not in the feel-good business, Rosey. The point is, these guys have the ability to walk, and both teams would be damn fools to let them do so while getting nothing in return. And you're right, there's plenty of risk involved for the Bulls to wait this out. I'd love to head out to my car for lunch on Thursday, turn on the radio, and hear that Pax just brought Gasol to town. But at the same time, I don't want to see Pax make a desperation move. If Memphis is asking too much, and in my personal opinion Deng plus the pick is too much, then you have to hang up the phone and keep looking.



True, but keep in mind the "culture" that Pax is always referencing. Chandler wasn't part of that culture. It think it's safe to say that neither Pax nor Skiles were big fans of Tyson. They didn't like the fact that he refused to work out in Chicago during the offseason. They didn't like the fact that he wasn't doing much to strengthen his aching back. They didn't like the fact that he couldn't catch an entry pass, knock down a shot from the elbow, etc. Basically, what the Malibu chief of police told to the The Dude:

I don't like your jerkoff name. I don't like your jerkoff face. I don't like your jerkoff behavior. And I don't like you... jerkoff.

From Sam Smith's article in the paper today, you get a mental image of Pau with the barrel of a .38 in his mouth.
It sounds like West & Pax are waiting to see who blinks first.
If Pau stays put, they risk losing him the way Toronto lost Vince.
He'll be running with the Bulls ( ) the only question is the price.

The Bulls offer I heard last was Noc, PJ, Sweetney & the Knicks pick which is significantly less than the earlier rumors. This package offfers the most cap relief to a team that's loosing over $10 mil. annually.

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“Mmmm. Move over, eggs. Bacon just got a new best friend - fudge.”

I've heard that as well, Mustang, but something doesn't add up here. PJ & Noce alone are enough to make the salaries work. The fact that Sweetney's name keeps coming up leads me to believe that Memphis wants us to take something else back as well, likely something shitty (ie: Brian Cardinal). But if Uncle Jerry will foot the bill, I couldn't care less if we took on a bad contract in order to make this happen.

Cardinal is a pretty awful contract, but unlike say, some of the Knicks bad contracts, I think Cardinal could actually contribute something. Not much, but he's a nice 7th/8th guy off the bench.

I'm still floored by that proposed Lakers-Nets trade mentioned upthread (haven't gotten this far in the thread before).

I just looked up Cardinal's contract.
How on earth did he get $37 mil for 6 years?
The worst part is that it's backloaded so the last 4 years are worth $27 of the $37.

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“Mmmm. Move over, eggs. Bacon just got a new best friend - fudge.”

yeah, it's incredible Chris Mullin didn't find a way to sign that contract too- after all, he inked those great deals with Adonal Foyle and Derek Fisher

Yeah, it's a terrible contract. But I'd rather spend Jerry's money than give away Pax's players!

As for the Kidd trade, that's not right. He might be headed to the Lakers, but not for that package. The salaries aren't even remotely close to matching up, not to mention the fact that New Jersey fans would burn down the Continental Airlines Arena, and rightfully so.

I read that the Nets want either Bynum, Walton or Odom to be at the center of what they get back.
Also there is talk of Vince going to Orlando since NJ won't bring him back as a free agent.

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“Mmmm. Move over, eggs. Bacon just got a new best friend - fudge.”

Bynum isn't going anywhere, and bringing in Odom kind of defeats the purpose of what they're claiming to be doing. As for Walton, I like the kid, but if he's the centerpiece of the deal, then the Lakers are making out like bandits.

The Nets-Magic scenario is much more sensible to me. That's been in the news before, though Orlando has denied it. New Jersey could let Hill's contract expire, just like Carter, only they might be able to steal a mid/late 1st round pick (future draft, they owe this year’s pick to Detroit) in the process. The Magic would be in an excellent position to get Carter long term without having to fight off other teams. Plus, they could guarantee themselves the ability to keep Darko (extending him this offseason might not leave enough cap space to give Carter a sizable FA contract).

According to the NY Post (Peter Vescey), Pau Gasol's exodus from Memphis has lost momentum. If the Grizzlies can't wheedle Ben Gordon and Luol Deng from the Bulls, he's not going anywhere, it says here. Meaning Gasol is staying put. John Paxson unwaveringly refuses to give up both or even two of his consecrated corps (Kirk Hinrich and Andres Nocioni) of four, whereas Jerry West steadfastly refuses to surrender his superior services for anything less. Moreover, there's strong sentiment from above that even if that ideal deal became available it'd be a monumental mistake to move Gasol at this time. Better to delay deliberating parting with a 26-year-old, 7-foot, All-Star caliber talent until it's established what position the Grizzlies will own in this June's draft and whether Greg Oden and Kevin Durant have declared their eligibility for it. Imagine Gasol alongside one or the other and then add Rudy Gay, Mike Miller (not exactly a lock to remain in Memphis past Thursday), Hakim Warrick, Alexander Johnson, Lawrence Roberts and largely forgotten (special rookie) Kyle Lowry, out forever with a broken left hand. "Trade Pau now and then what?" wondered a Grizzlies executive before answering his own question. "We'll wind up spending the next 10 years trying to replace him." Convinced time and youth, for the most part, are on his side, the Bulls VP is scouring the topography for a halfway decent post-up scorer (Shareef Abdur-Rahim?) unless, of course, someone like Zach Randolph suddenly comes on the market.

That's fine. Wouldn't be the first time Pax walked away from a trade and certainly won't be the last.

Then again, we're about 55 hours from the deadline. I wouldn't trust anyone or anything.

LOL

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

I would much rather have the latter than the former. It doesn't look like Abdur-Raheem has much left in the tank to me.

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If the Bulls aren't able to add a big man by the deadline, how about looking at another swing man (not Scottie Pippen) who can come off the bench, and average about 10 points per game ?

Not sure if there's anyone out there who wouldn't cost a whole lot, and I wouldn't want to move PJ Brown in this type of deal, but Nocioni is not 100%, and with Gordon starting now , and with Sefolosha not having much impact as a rookie in Skiles regular rotation, I don't think it would be a bad idea to have more player who can add a little punch to the bench.

My first priority would be to acquire a low post scorer, but if we can improve elsewhere, we should at least explore it.

Someone like Maggette would probably be too expensive, I'm guessing, but I wonder if we can find some other player to fit this mold.

Rudy Burrito, LOL! That's pretty funny!

Randolph would be great, but I haven't heard his name mentioned at all in any trade speculation.

Let's not get carried away here, either. If the supporting cast were so solid, Memphis wouldn't be such a piss poor team. I like a few of those guys, but the rest of them are no more special than your average NBA bench. Rudy G has a chance to be good, I'll give you that one. Mike Miller? 6th man. He's not a dominant NBA shooting guard. Hakim Warrick is a high flyer that doesn't rebound. It's not that he has a bad attitude or anything; he just happens to have less muscle mass than George Ofman. Johnson was a nice 2nd round pickup for them (most expected he would get picked in round 1). He and Lawrence Roberts do a pretty solid job on the glass, but neither player has what you would call a big upside. They are Chris Duhons at the PF position: a pleasant surprise, but still, you're not foolish yourself. Kyle Lowry, I like him a lot actually, but don't crap me - there were several PGs drafted ahead of him last June, and a few more bunched up right behind him. He's got talent, but it's no shoe-in that he's the floor leader on a playoff caliber team.



What the hell is this "we" shit? All of these guys are out on their asses once the team gets sold. Jerry West has already put his house on the market. If the GM gets canned, why would they keep his assistants around?

And for the record, Vescey is the same guy who, 30 days ago, wrote that Gasol was a goner. In fact, he said "I put this out there with utter certainty." Now, suddenly, Memphis has no interest in moving him? Sounds to me like Vecsey is serving as a mouthpiece for his old pal Jerry West. Again, 55 hours to deadline, don't believe a word you hear.