No, because it's "smarter than I am." But you're just being sarcastic I bet.

_________________

These debates are always fun, especially when someone's offended. As far as who's overrated or whatever, it's whatever you want to believe. Music's going to either affect you or it isn't. I blame Spin, Rolling Stone, etc. for the overrated/underrated shit. Radio stations can be blamed too, not just for who was overrated, but just over PLAYED. And I've ranted about that already.

I could never stand Phish. And Dave Matthews Band lost me after "Crash".

My vote for overrated in this generation is The White Stripes, and I really like them. But put them up back in 1994, and they're nothing more than a Buzz Clip. They're Dig. They're 900 Ft. Jesus. They're being treated as the saviours of rock. Everyone should know by now that the new rock & roll is rap.

Actually, the name of that band was MC 900 Ft. Jesus.


...but I don't like to correct people.

_________________
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame.

http://www.TheCommittedIndian.com/

that kind of makes my point though...no offense to anyone who is a big fan of one MC 900 Ft. Jesus.

now, I do like the white stripes, but I never have thought of them as 'saving' rock and roll. However, IMHO, Jack White's side band The Raconteurs are WAY better...based on one album so the body of work is small. I hope they continue to record.

_________________

Rap is not the new rock. What does that even mean? Dumb thing to say.

Speaking of rap, Kanye West? Overrated.

_________________

i can understand people not liking led zeppelin (especially plant's voice..), but to say that 'other bands did it better' or that 'jimmy page couldnt solo his way out of a paper bag'..


either you guys are listening to a different led-zeppelin than i am, or you're smoking some stuff that id like to try.

were they self indulgent, cock rockers? at times, yes. but anybody that was in thier position would do the same thing. their concerts in 75 and 77 were for the most part, a 4 hour drug induced haze, but shows in '73 and previous were simply mindblowing. i dunno if you guys have seen that zeppelin DVD that came out in 2003, but there's some great stuff of thiers on it. that 1970 show at royal albert hall...wow. thats before herion took its toll on page, and before plant blew his voice out.

dislike them all you want. i totally understand that they arent for everybody. but they were anything but overrated. pages songwritng is among the best there's ever been. listen to some of the songs on houses of the holy, physical graffiti, and presence. all of the little guitar licks in the background add so much to the song. same thing with bonzo on the drums. it wasnt just "bang bang BASH" like it is now. bonzo threw all sorts of little fills in that added so much to every song. im not sure there's a musician thats more underrated than john paul jones. besides playing about a dozen instruments, he wrote (at least laid the foundations for) some of thier best songs. and knock plants voice all you want, but he has some great lyrics. he incorporates a lot of british poetry and literature, along with greek mythology into his lyrics.

in conclusion, you wont find a better band then led-zeppelin. thier influence can be heard in almost everything you hear today.

_________________

he's also a fan of Tolkien...

i know there's a mordor reference in one of the songs. apology for not remembering which.

i'm not much of zep fan. i own a few albums....know "4" really well, but that's about it. i wouldn't consider them overrated at all.
the rolling stones, however.....

frank, there's some music appreciation happening with you that is quite evident (at least to another musician) in your led zep vamp. i think because you know what is actually happening, there's a "passion unfairness" in your responses.

_________________
@audioidkid

no...me a zep fan?


forgot about the hobbit..good call doug. 'mordor' song is "ramble on" off of LZII.


there's a lot of bands that i dont like, and think are overrated, but i recognize the talent and the influence (stones, and KISS come to mind off hand..)

_________________

It means that rap has replaced what rock and roll did to the youth culture in the 60's and 70's. No rock and roll band will ever do what the Beatles and the Stones did for it, no matter how much Rolling Stone wants to crown a new champion or an equal. It's rap that the kids listen to and it's rap that has the parents scared. Rock and roll, the music, isn't dead--but its cultural impact is.

And notice that I don't use the word hip hop, because that is NOT what that is...it is RAP. Hip hop is something completely different.

Rap being the new rock connotes quality music being made. No.

I'm fine with rock no longer needing to scare moms and Christians like it used to. It's developed beyond that. Radiohead doesn't need to shake the foundation of your morals. They just make amazing music.

_________________

Yes that is what I meant. "Rock and roll" wasn't just a form of music, it was a way of life. It was a style, it was the way you talked, the way you were. People were defined by it. That's what rap's doing today. Musically rap has a lot of value, but there is a lot of garbage out there, just like there was a lot of garbage and rip off stuff in rock and roll in the 50's, 60's and 70's. I equate the pop rap to the bubble gum music of the 50's. Considered just as dangerous at the time by parents. I wasn't trying to say that rap has replaced rock as the great music of our time.

And, I love Radiohead.

i'm not so sure i agree with this....when you say "rap is what the kids are listening too."
watch headbangers ball for about 20 minutes tonight....that's what the "white" kids are listening to.

_________________
@audioidkid

not this white kid.

_________________

Kanye West, yes he is overrated. He's released some of the best singles of the past few years, but his albums are front loaded, they drag on to long and the skits are brutal. Russel Simmons or Jessie Jackson really need to boycott skits on rap albums.

Rock and roll, the music, isn't dead--but its cultural impact is.

I get what you're saying and kind of agree, but do you ever go to Wicker Park, it's obvious many of them are "attempting" to live a rock and roll lifestyle. And technically rock and rolls cultural impact will never die. Some kid will always end up hearing some song that changes his life, that kid will grow up and change the world and it will all go back to rock music. Music next to fuking is the most personal and emotional connection one can make, IMO.

well of course not every single kid is listening to rap. but as a generation, "hip hop" as it's been called now for the last few years, has made a huge impact on clothing, lingo, etc. Listen to how kids talk nowadays. It's more rap influenced than anything. Plus, a lot of the more popular rock bands are fusing rap into them (and that's been going on for a long time). Headbangers ball is not what it used to be, either. It's tucked away on a spot on MTV. Most of the stuff on there is white kids trying to be ghetto, trying to be "hip hop".

Everything goes through phases. Before the 50's there was no "rock and roll". You had Glenn Miller, and "big band" music. When the 50's came around, and into the 60's, rock and roll took things from big band and modified it...along with motown. Created a sensation, and a new way of looking at life for kids (teenagers). It created a rebellion, parents hated it. Teenagers want to rebel, so they listened to what their parents didn't want them to. So fast forward to now, what do teenager's parents listen to? Rock and roll. So what do they hate? Rap. So what are kids going to listen to?

I know I haven't fleshed all of this out the way I wanted to. My main point is: rap is the new rock in roll in its affect on the teenage population. The reason I brought it up is that all these bands that are underrated, overrated, are all from this psuedo barometer created by Rolling Stone which hasn't been a relevant magazine since the band with the same moniker was. My point was...they keep searching for THEIR rock and roll saviour, like The White Stripes, or The Hives, or what have you. And my point is--you're looking in the WRONG GENRE. Whatever music that's impacting the culture out there, it's NOT rock and roll anymore. Not that style of music. It's not changing. But rap is something that's shaped this generation, no matter how much you want to admit it or not. YES, rock and roll still exists. YES it always will. YES there will be a revival of it some day but it will be out of nostalgia, and some other form of music will take hold of a generation. It's just how history works.

Homer said it best, Rock and roll attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact.

wait what?

what year are you in zack? rap-rock bands like limp bizkit, lincoln park, and to a much lesser extent korn, have been non-existent for years now.

and frank....sorry to dissappoint but, you're not a kid anymore.

and if you mean white girls then yeah...i'd agree with you. but, name me one white male "hip hop" musician other than eminem or matisyahu?

the cultural impact of rock and or roll died with elvis and the beatles.

punk was a cultural influence. run dmc, grandmaster flash, and the beatie boys were a cultural influence. 80's hair metal was a cultural influence, michael jackson was a cultural influence, boy bands and girl bands were a cultural influence, grunge was a cultural influence, gangsta rap was a cultural influence...
nu-metal was cultural influence, the rebirth of "old" metal was a cultural influence....

but right now? today?
there's nothing....
there is no influence right now, which means we are due for one.
music history tells us so. but, hip hop it won't be. it had it's heyday.

_________________
@audioidkid

I'm hoping Big Band makes a comeback.

_________________
We all have private ails. The troublemakers are they who need public cures for their private ails.- Eric Hoffer

I think homo-erotic Scandanavian trash-core is going to be huge.

_________________
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame.

http://www.TheCommittedIndian.com/

No. There are definitely influences, or fads. But you know now that I've been thinking about it...there is a huge surge of country pop that's starting to engulf the youth culture.

Again, what I'm saying is...you look at White America and mostly teenagers--they are still wanna be "gangsta"'s.

If I'm still not making any sense, I apologeye.

disagree coach. hang out in front of the hot topic at the mall here in bozeman and then you'll think those beverly kids are about as normal as normal can be..

_________________

so zack....using your logic and my ability to melt it to my needs....

james dean and muhammed ali are the only cultural icons we've had in the past 100 years.
james dean invented aloof cool and elvis copied it, played three chords and made millions, but really elvis was copying from 1920s era blues...so, i guess elvis was a fad and therefore rock and roll.

ali was the first rapper....and he didn't even need beats. but he was just reciting poetry...so, i guess he doesn't count either....

the billboard charts don't count. i don't own any of those albums and they have never represented me.

ludacris and nelly furtado are not white males
so, rap is a influence but the pioneers of it are fads? i don't get it.

and really if we want to get into cultural influence. there's some christian rock band that has sold more albums than any of the people who are "relevant" in music right now. but, since i can't remember their name, i guess they are really not much of a cultural influence...

stink: i love that music.
reason: it did, but then it died again....but, it was just a fad.
just like in the 1930s.

_________________
@audioidkid

I never said that. I was using the Billboard charts as an example of what people are considering "popular". Back then it was rock and roll. Now it's hip hop. Most Top 10's are dominated by what they say is "hip hop" (or rap). It can be dance hip hop, which most of it is, but it's a form of it. I mean, KRS-1 said rap is something you do, hip hop is something you live.

But that's beside the point. I'm not saying it's RIGHT. I'm not saying it's WRONG. It's just how it is. Hip hop still dominates the music charts. When Rolling Stone or Spin try to annoint some new rock band as the second coming of the Beatles or whatever, they are WRONG because there can't be a second coming of the Beatles. There was the Beatles, and that's it. They innovated rock and roll. No bands right now innovate rock and roll.

I am solely using the mainstream as an example right now. I know there are plenty of other forms of music out there, and I listen to them all. But what DOMINATES is hip hop. Okay, it's bad. There were some really BAD acts in days of yore that considered themselves "rock and roll" that still dominated the charts.



Not Petra!?

I think what gets me in trouble is that people seem to think I'm trying to make this statement of what I think people are listening to. All you have to do is look at sales. What sells right now? Right now, it's "hip hop"; the way that rock and roll sold back in the 50's and 60's. People want to look "hip hop" the way they wanted to look "rock" back then.

so...hip hop is the new pop music mass produced bubble gum crap from the 80s. new kids on the block were a way of life for many pre-pubescent girls. my sister included.

could we just say hip hop is a fashion statement wrapped in the guise of a musical genre?

doc martens and flannels were a way of life too.....still are by some. although, the flannel morphed into a hoodie for me.

aside:

billboard hot 100 1985 top 5
wham
madonna
wham
foreigner
chaka khan

billboard hot 100 1995 top 5
coolio
TLC
TLC
Seal
Boyz to Men

billboard hot 100 2005 top 5
mariah carey
gwen stefani
mario
kelly clarkson
Ciara

it's all crap....all of it. crap. except maybe seal.....but mushroomhead's version of "crazy" was better than the orignal imo.

_________________
@audioidkid

i also liked seal. but yeah. pretty much. crap. i was never really into all the stuff the popular kids liked anyway.

seal has a bunch of crap on his face

_________________

We can all agree that emo is the worst thing to happen to music since...well, shit, nu-metal, but this just might be worse.

_________________