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 Post subject: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 6:11 pm 
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Feel free to rip away Sandberg haters and Quade lovers:

An extremely difficult breakupBeloved in Chicago, Ryne Sandberg had to go elsewhere and moving on isn't that easyEmail Print Comments5 By Gene Wojciechowski
ESPN.com
Archive
As divorces go, the one between Ryne Sandberg and the Chicago Cubs was the result of irreconcilable differences. It was quick, but it wasn't painless.

Sandberg, the Hall of Famer whose retired jersey number flaps from the right-field flagpole at Wrigley Field, wanted to manage the Cubs. But the Cubs fell in love with someone else in September -- Mike Quade, well-respected among seamheads, but a relative unknown outside of Wrigleyville.

Quade got full custody of the Cubs' job and Sandberg, who was one of three finalists interviewed by owner Tom Ricketts, got a cooler of ice water thrown on his dreams of managing a big league team. So rather than return for a second season as the Cubs' Triple-A manager (and fifth season in the organization's minor league system), Sandberg accepted a similar position with the Philadelphia Phillies' Lehigh Valley (Pa.) Triple-A team.


[+] EnlargeRon Vesely/MLB Photos/Getty Images
Ryne Sandberg will forever be linked with the Cubs. His number flies from a flagpole, after all.
From Iowa Cub to IronPig, where Sandberg's team now leads its division in the International League and is 11 games over .500 (the franchise had never spent a single day above .500 in its previous three seasons of existence), life is good.

"Up to this point it's nothing but positives,'' Sandberg said in a phone interview from the team's ballpark in Allentown, Pa. "It's just a very good working relationship. Tremendous communication as an organization. Everybody's in it for the same thing and everybody feels part of it."

It's up to you to decide if Sandberg was suggesting his relationship with the Cubs lacked some of those Phillies feel-good features. But according to Sandberg, there was no reason to remain with the Cubs after Quade's hiring.

"I want to do this at the major league level, from a coaching standpoint or a managerial standpoint,'' Sandberg said. "Obviously that did not happen at Chicago. … People in the minor leagues are trying to get to the major leagues. I felt like I didn't have the opportunity to go to the major leagues [with the Cubs]. To answer your question, I felt like it was necessary to leave the organization.''

This is no small admission because Sandberg is no small presence in Chicago. He was inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame in 2005, the same year his jersey number was retired by the Cubs. In the often wretched, tear-stained history of the Cubs, Sandberg was a baseball safehouse: fourth in career games played, at-bats, hits and stolen bases, third in runs scored, fifth in home runs and total bases, seventh in runs batted in.

I was at Wrigley on Friday and again on Sunday. Sandberg jerseys still dot what's left of the dwindling Cubs crowds. Makes sense: he spent 15 of his 16 big league seasons in a Cubs uniform and another four seasons as a manager for the franchise's Single-A, Double-A and Triple-A teams (he was the Pacific Coast League's manager of the year in 2010).

Sandberg was a finalist for the Cubs opening created by Lou Piniella's overdue departure. But within the Cubs' executive offices, Sandberg's candidacy lagged far behind that of Quade's, and to a lesser extent, behind that of Eric Wedge's pursuit of the job.

Nor was Sandberg given serious consideration by the Cubs to join Quade's big league staff. It would have been a strange, awkward and unfair dynamic -- a point acknowledged by both Sandberg and the Cubs.

The Seattle Mariners, Pittsburgh Pirates and Toronto Blue Jays all kicked the tires on Sandberg when they were compiling a list of potential managerial replacements. But none of the three teams formally interviewed Sandberg -- and Sandberg said he never knew they called.


[+] EnlargeJ. Meric/Getty Images
Ryne Sandberg didn't feel like he belonged with the Cubs. He feels at home in the Phillies' organization.
"I contacted the Cubs,'' Blue Jays general manager Alex Anthopoulos said by phone Sunday. "I was told by [Cubs GM] Jim Hendry that I could have permission to speak to anybody in his organization. The employees I specifically asked about, he was effusive in his praise.''

Anthopoulos declined to name names, but one of those employees was Sandberg. And shortly after Quade's transition from interim to full-time manager, Sandberg became an ex-Cubs employee.

Ask Sandberg, who managed more than a few players who have reached the big league roster, if he takes a special interest in Cubs box scores and you get a semi-terse, "I follow all of baseball.''

There's a difference between moving forward and forgetting. Sandberg has moved forward (or at least laterally) to the Phillies' organization (the same organization that drafted him in the 20th round and 511th pick of the 1978 June amateur draft). He sounds happy. Even content.

"Oh, yeah,'' Sandberg said. "Very comfortable. More comfortable in my own skin than as a player, that's for sure. I enjoy coming to the ballpark. I enjoy watching these guys play. I enjoy competing myself. Coaching third base. Putting on plays and having fun with it. … I appreciate the game more and understand the game more, all parts of it. And I think maturity has something to do with.

"Being in the situation I was in [as a player], being on losing teams other than two years, that took a toll on me. I was looked at as one of the guys, always [expected to] be the guy to win the game. All that pressure, going to the ballpark, I think that weighed on me.''

This is different. Sandberg is different from when he played his final game on Sept. 28, 1997. He is more vocal. More self-assured.

But Sandberg hasn't forgotten that feeling of disappointment and, sure, perhaps anger, when the Cubs chose Quade over him. It's one of the reasons he left.

"I'm in the minor leagues all over again,'' said Sandberg. "How do I want to put it: I look at myself as a minor league manager trying to get to the big leagues as a coach or manager.''

The irony? In mid-June the IronPigs will visit and tour the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown.

It shouldn't be too hard for his players to spot Sandberg's bronze plaque on the Hall's oak walls.

He'll be the one wearing the Cubs hat.


Gene Wojciechowski is the senior national columnist for ESPN.com. You can contact him at gene.wojciechowski@espn.com. Hear Gene's podcasts and ESPN Radio appearances by clicking here. And don't forget to follow him on Twitter @GenoEspn.



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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 7:52 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 8:25 pm 
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I have not read anyone here that hates Sandberg. He was my childhood baseball hero. I just don't think he was ready to be a major league manager yet. And I don't think that the Cubs would be any better off right now with him as manager over Quade.

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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 8:28 pm 
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When I read this shit, I really don't care how Sandberg feels, but it just pisses me off that Hendry put this guy on what was a very clear path to be a Major League manager and then decided against it.

On 1 level, I see how the Sandberg ALS is generally pissed off, but on another level I am just pissed at Hendry for using all this time to develop a manager and he was just fucking around the whole time.

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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 8:34 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
I have not read anyone here that hates Sandberg. He was my childhood baseball hero. I just don't think he was ready to be a major league manager yet. And I don't think that the Cubs would be any better off right now with him as manager over Quade.

Exactly. They could have the top 5 managers in baseball history and it would make very little difference because this team is awful.

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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 9:03 pm 
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bigfan wrote:
I am just pissed at Hendry


agreed


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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 9:20 pm 
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bigfan wrote:
When I read this shit, I really don't care how Sandberg feels, but it just pisses me off that Hendry put this guy on what was a very clear path to be a Major League manager and then decided against it.

On 1 level, I see how the Sandberg ALS is generally pissed off, but on another level I am just pissed at Hendry for using all this time to develop a manager and he was just fucking around the whole time.


You put him on the path so you can evaluate him and decide if he's going to be your guy. Honestly, if they put him out there and evaluated him after awhile and determined he wasn't going to be a good manager, IMO, they made the right decision. (Of course they could be wrong, but that's a different argument).


He shouldn't be the manager just because you put him in the path.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 9:41 pm 
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immessedup17 wrote:
bigfan wrote:
When I read this shit, I really don't care how Sandberg feels, but it just pisses me off that Hendry put this guy on what was a very clear path to be a Major League manager and then decided against it.

On 1 level, I see how the Sandberg ALS is generally pissed off, but on another level I am just pissed at Hendry for using all this time to develop a manager and he was just fucking around the whole time.


He decided he wasn't developed enough. Fine with me. I'd rather see someone who has been in a coaching role longer manage the team I root for.

Wendell Kim or Chris Speier would get your vote of confidence then. Or perhaps you are more of a Peanuts Lowery kind of guy? I would rather see a guy with a plan and a vision . It is clear why these fuckin goofs wanted Q managing. So they could run the clubhouse. Fuck these assholes. Sandberg may or may not have made any decisions that changed where this club is now but I would bet they would at least play with some purpose and ambition. This team FUCKING BLOWS.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 9:50 pm 
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Bucky and IMU, they did not EVALUATE the guy. They didn't even call him when a choice was made. They didnt tell him if he had a job anymore?

Hendry gave him a chance to be the good guy figuring no way Sandberg sticks with it. The guy not only stuck with it, he flourished doing the job. Hendry had no clue how to handle this.

All these kids coming up now hustling, playing hard, etc are his players for the last 4 years. The talent has a ceiling but Darwin Barney, Castro and direct Sandberg products.. This is more than this system has produced in 10 years.

I really don't have a problem with the Quade chance. The guy earned it, but this was never between Sandberg and Quade, it was Wedge and Quade. Sandberg was never in the running.

Just speaks volumes to Hendry inability to run an organization.

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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 9:51 pm 
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bigfan wrote:
When I read this shit, I really don't care how Sandberg feels, but it just pisses me off that Hendry put this guy on what was a very clear path to be a Major League manager and then decided against it.

On 1 level, I see how the Sandberg ALS is generally pissed off, but on another level I am just pissed at Hendry for using all this time to develop a manager and he was just fucking around the whole time.

Ricketts claims the Quade hire was all Hendry's. Hopefully Ricketts wastes little time axing them both come seasons end as this team and this manager are a disgrace. I sincerely doubt Sandberg would tolerate this level of poor fundamental baseball and a general lack of effort by some of these veterans. Quade seems to go along to get along and has gotten nowhere and for Hendry to predict anything different when he hired him proves again how clueless he is. We shall see what Ricketts does and he better wack both these clowns.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 12:56 am 
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RFDC wrote:
I have not read anyone here that hates Sandberg. He was my childhood baseball hero. I just don't think he was ready to be a major league manager yet. And I don't think that the Cubs would be any better off right now with him as manager over Quade.


Quade isn't ready either.

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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 1:42 am 
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In yesterdays game,I saw Dewitt throw a guy out from LF. (Ok,he slipped on the wet turf,big deal).Fuks arm in RF keeping MLB speediest runner at 3rd on a FO. Aram making some nice plays at 3rd,too. The Cubs D will get better when they decide where Castro should play. They need a defensive wizard at SS & maybe put Castro in LF. And TonyC in CF better think about hitting his cutoff men BEFORE a ball is hit to him. The Cubs have no starting pitching for the first time in about 6 or 7 years. They used to be near the top in the NL in quality starts just about every year,recently. Nowadays ,giving up 3 runs is more like 1 IP then 6 IP.

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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:02 am 
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jimmypasta wrote:
maybe put Castro in LF.



Historically bad thoughts from JP! well done sir

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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:19 am 
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Scorehead wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I have not read anyone here that hates Sandberg. He was my childhood baseball hero. I just don't think he was ready to be a major league manager yet. And I don't think that the Cubs would be any better off right now with him as manager over Quade.


Quade isn't ready either.


That maybe so, and if he wasn't after all his experience in the minors then I am even more sure that Sandberg was not ready after just a couple years.

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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:39 am 
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I don't understand this whole Sandberg story. He managed in the minors for a couple years, and worked his way up the system. He gets to interview for the big league job, and doesn't get it, so he leaves. That makes sense if he truly wants to manage at the big league level. He does get calls from some other big league teams, but nothing happens from them. So then why would he go to manage in Philadelphia's farm system? His chances of being promoted to the big league ball club there are non-existant. They have been a powerhouse for the last couple years, and if they ever had to search for a new manager, they would probably go after a big name guy. Seems like Sandberg is going to be stuck there for awhile.

So I guess my question is: Is every single GM in baseball just as stupid as Hendry/Ricketts for not hiring Sandberg, or do they all get a pass too?

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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
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Northside_Dan wrote:
jimmypasta wrote:
maybe put Castro in LF.



Historically bad thoughts from JP! well done sir


Yeah,because he's making magic at SS. I wanted the Cubs to move him to second before he ever took a ML AB last season. I read about his terrible fielding at the minor league level,I figured 2nd would be easier. I then thought switching him with Barney,that still might work.
He is a floodgate in the IF,screwing up routine plays on a routine basis. He might be better suited for the OF.

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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 11:10 am 
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Douchebag wrote:
I don't understand this whole Sandberg story. He managed in the minors for a couple years, and worked his way up the system. He gets to interview for the big league job, and doesn't get it, so he leaves. That makes sense if he truly wants to manage at the big league level. He does get calls from some other big league teams, but nothing happens from them. So then why would he go to manage in Philadelphia's farm system? His chances of being promoted to the big league ball club there are non-existant. They have been a powerhouse for the last couple years, and if they ever had to search for a new manager, they would probably go after a big name guy. Seems like Sandberg is going to be stuck there for awhile.

So I guess my question is: Is every single GM in baseball just as stupid as Hendry/Ricketts for not hiring Sandberg, or do they all get a pass too?


When its time to go, you go. After the way Hendry mishandled the Quade / Sandberg situation it was time for Sandberg to go. As for Quade, every other GM in baseball passed on him.

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Last edited by Scorehead on Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:42 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 11:18 pm 
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On 1 level, I see how the Sandberg ALS is generally pissed off, but on another level I am just pissed at Hendry for using all this time to develop a manager and he was just fucking around the whole time.[/quote]

He decided he wasn't developed enough. Fine with me. I'd rather see someone who has been in a coaching role longer manage the team I root for.[/quote]
Wendell Kim or Chris Speier would get your vote of confidence then. Or perhaps you are more of a Peanuts Lowery kind of guy? I would rather see a guy with a plan and a vision . It is clear why these fuckin goofs wanted Q managing. So they could run the clubhouse. Fuck these assholes. Sandberg may or may not have made any decisions that changed where this club is now but I would bet they would at least play with some purpose and ambition. This team FUCKING BLOWS.[/quote]
Are you vouching for Sandberg having a plan and a vision? Do you have some sort of inside view we aren't privy to?

The Cubs have a personnel issue. This is starting to work itself out as the bad contracts we have wind down, and the young players we have start to get chances.[/quote]
What is this "we" shit you talk about. Are you privy to something? Do you have a mouse in your pocket that works for the Cubs? Are you employed by them? We means us as in I have a vested stake or say in this team. The fuckin Cubs have had a personnel issue as long as I have been on this earth. When you were shittin green I was watching this franchise suck to the heavens so do not give me the young players will do it bullshit. You are too young to preach and I think smart enough to know better.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:43 am 
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Scooter wrote:
On 1 level, I see how the Sandberg ALS is generally pissed off, but on another level I am just pissed at Hendry for using all this time to develop a manager and he was just fucking around the whole time.


He decided he wasn't developed enough. Fine with me. I'd rather see someone who has been in a coaching role longer manage the team I root for.[/quote]
Wendell Kim or Chris Speier would get your vote of confidence then. Or perhaps you are more of a Peanuts Lowery kind of guy? I would rather see a guy with a plan and a vision . It is clear why these fuckin goofs wanted Q managing. So they could run the clubhouse. Fuck these assholes. Sandberg may or may not have made any decisions that changed where this club is now but I would bet they would at least play with some purpose and ambition. This team FUCKING BLOWS.[/quote]
Are you vouching for Sandberg having a plan and a vision? Do you have some sort of inside view we aren't privy to?

The Cubs have a personnel issue. This is starting to work itself out as the bad contracts we have wind down, and the young players we have start to get chances.[/quote]
What is this "we" shit you talk about. Are you privy to something? Do you have a mouse in your pocket that works for the Cubs? Are you employed by them? We means us as in I have a vested stake or say in this team. The fuckin Cubs have had a personnel issue as long as I have been on this earth. When you were shittin green I was watching this franchise suck to the heavens so do not give me the young players will do it bullshit. You are too young to preach and I think smart enough to know better.[/quote]

Scorehead wrote:
Please figure out how to use the quote function.

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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:08 am 
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Scorehead wrote:
Scooter wrote:
On 1 level, I see how the Sandberg ALS is generally pissed off, but on another level I am just pissed at Hendry for using all this time to develop a manager and he was just fucking around the whole time.


He decided he wasn't developed enough. Fine with me. I'd rather see someone who has been in a coaching role longer manage the team I root for.

Wendell Kim or Chris Speier would get your vote of confidence then. Or perhaps you are more of a Peanuts Lowery kind of guy? I would rather see a guy with a plan and a vision . It is clear why these fuckin goofs wanted Q managing. So they could run the clubhouse. Fuck these assholes. Sandberg may or may not have made any decisions that changed where this club is now but I would bet they would at least play with some purpose and ambition. This team FUCKING BLOWS.[/quote]
Are you vouching for Sandberg having a plan and a vision? Do you have some sort of inside view we aren't privy to?

The Cubs have a personnel issue. This is starting to work itself out as the bad contracts we have wind down, and the young players we have start to get chances.[/quote]
What is this "we" shit you talk about. Are you privy to something? Do you have a mouse in your pocket that works for the Cubs? Are you employed by them? We means us as in I have a vested stake or say in this team. The fuckin Cubs have had a personnel issue as long as I have been on this earth. When you were shittin green I was watching this franchise suck to the heavens so do not give me the young players will do it bullshit. You are too young to preach and I think smart enough to know better.[/quote]

Scorehead wrote:
Please figure out how to use the quote function.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:13 am 
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Misquotes all over the place



I like Scorehead's line about All the other MLB teams passed on Quade...since, ya know, those same teams all passed on RYNO. Except one more passed on Sandberg.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
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rogers park bryan wrote:
I like Scorehead's line about All the other MLB teams passed on Quade...since, ya know, those same teams all passed on RYNO. Except one more passed on Sandberg.

That's a great point.

Quade = Passed Over By 29 Teams
Sandberg = Passed Over By 30 Teams.

Simple math that simple minds can't understand.

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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:12 pm 
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Douchebag wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
I like Scorehead's line about All the other MLB teams passed on Quade...since, ya know, those same teams all passed on RYNO. Except one more passed on Sandberg.

That's a great point.

Quade = Passed Over By 29 Teams
Sandberg = Passed Over By 30 Teams.

Simple math that simple minds can't understand.


Sandberg - known by 30 teams
Quade - known by 1 team

let's face it, in the long run, Sandberg's prospects for managing are much better...people are aware of him wanting to manage and he will be considered even more

This is Quade's last managerial job...and when it's done, people still wont know who he is

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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:21 pm 
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Time will tell if the Cubs made the right choice. Lets not try to figure it out before Sandberg ever steps into a MLB dugout as a manager or coach. Neither guy proved anything and after looking at this team so far Sandberg should be thanking god that he didnt get the job. Now this stinker of a season doesnt show up on his resume.

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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:23 pm 
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A little perspective:

The BEST managers make a difference of about 3-5 games per year.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
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rogers park bryan wrote:
A little perspective:

The BEST managers make a difference of about 3-5 games per year.

I agree.

Managing baseball is probably the easiest of all the major sports. I can make the proper matchup moves, or steal-calls, or sac bunt calls, or etc... Managing egos would be the only real difficult task in the job. There's no complicated X's and O's like you see in football, basketball, or hockey.

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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:28 pm 
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Douchebag wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
A little perspective:

The BEST managers make a difference of about 3-5 games per year.

I agree.

Managing baseball is probably the easiest of all the major sports. I can make the proper matchup moves, or steal-calls, or sac bunt calls, or etc... Managing egos would be the only real difficult task in the job. There's no complicated X's and O's like you see in football, basketball, or hockey.

Maybe the best managers can make a positive +5 but the worst can cost a lot more. Mismanaging matchups is one thing but killing bullpens and waiting to pull starters too long can cost 5 games a month, and really the pain in the pen doesn't even start showing until August or September.

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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:32 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Maybe the best managers can make a positive +5 but the worst can cost a lot more. Mismanaging matchups is one thing but killing bullpens and waiting to pull starters too long can cost 5 games a month, and really the pain in the pen doesn't even start showing until August or September.

I'd think thats a rare occurence. I understand what you mean but I dont think its 5 games a month. Hard to quantify because you dont know if the bad move (leaving Starter in too long for one game) helped win 2 or 3 games later that week with a stronger bullpen.


Id agree there's further to go on the negative side. The great managers pretty much plateua at a point and the talent takes over.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:34 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
The great managers pretty much plateua at a point and the talent takes over.



pretty much agree, but Larussa to me is the exception

that guy is amazing...

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 Post subject: Re: Sandberg Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:36 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Maybe the best managers can make a positive +5 but the worst can cost a lot more. Mismanaging matchups is one thing but killing bullpens and waiting to pull starters too long can cost 5 games a month, and really the pain in the pen doesn't even start showing until August or September.

I'd think thats a rare occurence. I understand what you mean but I dont think its 5 games a month. Hard to quantify because you dont know if the bad move (leaving Starter in too long for one game) helped win 2 or 3 games later that week with a stronger bullpen.


Id agree there's further to go on the negative side. The great managers pretty much plateua at a point and the talent takes over.

True. I'd give some managers (Gardenhire, LaRussa, Cox) a lot better than a +4.5 though. I'd give some (Quade, 2010 Lou) a lot more losses. But yeah, you're probably right, average manager +/- 5ish games.
So, you think a 3rd base coach can decide 3-5 games a year? I wonder, they make snap decisions that REALLy affect the outcome of a play in action, not just putting the pieces out there to do what they do.

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