3-4 years ago KS had a good point about Caron butler. That's why this thread's title is in this category.

Can we discuss? Kid, definitely wanna hear your thoughts.

Illl try to stop flip flopping on Dirk from now on regardless of what happens. He is truly a transcendent athlete who significantly changed, impacted, influenced the direction of the league. Bargnaini probably owes half his monetary worth to dirk.

Especially in this era he never demanded a trade, never humiliated teammates, was fiercely loyal, and has shown a resiliency and toughness rarely matched today. I think it's safe to say Dirk is one of the best basketball players in history, regardless of how you quantify that previous statement

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

FF, I am glad to see you can change your opinion on someone like Dirk. As a long time fan of his, I am thrilled to see him playing like this in the playoffs. I don't think there is any question that he is one of the greatest players of this era. And IMO he is the greatest European player ever. If the Bulls cannot get a title this year, I definitely want to see Dirk get a ring.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

He's been great in the playoffs this year after fading his entire career let's not go overboard. I'm still going to say Drazen even though I'll be the only on. I think a young Sabonis was better. Probably the best Euro player ever.

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Dirk isn't in the same league as Bird. Bird was better and he was clutch.

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Saying Drazen is better than Dirk is similar to saying Bill Walton was a top 3-4 center of all time. It's possible but I prefer the general standard longevity and intangibles entangled with obvious transcendent skill

If you think a young Sabonis was better it's because you're drunk or Rick logged onto your account because he was having argument withdrawals

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Re-reading this thread and this statement here made me laugh. KS has a good point every 3-4 years whether he wants to or not.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

that is a nice catch but I've always enjoyed KS hoops talk/opinions as much as anyone's I've seen here. Except my own of course

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Especially when it was done under "Carrie"

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Still kinda annoyed people think I was capable of that. But sp has much influence here...

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

It's an easier answer than what is 2+2 if you know NBA stuff

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Exactly, Bird is better.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Bird was better than Dirk. Like I said in another thread, I think Dave Cowens is a good comparison. They're both big guys who can shoot. Bird was a premium shooter for a guy of any size. He was a different level. He hit about half his shots. And he shot from all over.

With regard to Sabonis, I don't think we ever saw him at his best in the NBA. He was already plagued by nagging injures by the time he got here.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Yeah, he was the best European player ever. You can find some decent highlight tapes of a young Sabonis on youtube.

Dirk might be better. Its hard to compare across eras but to add in the different league and level of play makes it near impossible.

JORR, lets not feel the need to deem any one of them the best. Theyre both awesome.

Nowitzki's true shooting percentage and 3-point percentage are actually greater than Bird's and they have roughly equal efficient field goal percentages. I have no problem if you think Bird is better, but you really undersell Nowitzki if you suggest he's merely a good shooter for a big guy.

I never said he was "merely" a good shooter for a big guy. He's a great player. An All-Star. A Hall of Famer. A lot like Dave Cowens. He isn't Larry Bird though.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Offensively he's a lot closer to Bird than Cowens.
Edit: And while you did not use the word "merely" that sure seemed to be the implication with the "big guys who can shoot" vs. "premium shooter of any size" language.

Well, Cowens had a much smaller career than either of them. I'm just telling you the guy he most reminds me of. Cowens didn't really play in the 3-point basket era either.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

One huge difference here...

It took dirk a decade roughly to be an unguardable scorer in terms of getting his shot on any type of defender.

It took Bird a couple years to start completing dominating a game on offense. Just look at the huge gap between them in terms of transition offense. Getting teammates involved. The difference in titles was obviously not just luck

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You more or less told me it looked foolish as hell to start a shoutout thread every time you start really enjoying a player's game.

Took me a few years but lesson learned sir

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You just invited sp to the thread KS.

I just hope she posts at the same second I do and he is momentarily confused

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I think Larry Bird's ball-handling, passing, and court-vision are underrated. You could make the case that Bird was a point-forward long before Pippen made it popular. Also, Bird played really good team defense. Bird was a better player no doubt, but Dirk is comparable.

My argument with JORR from a few months ago wasn't whether Dirk was better than Bird, but whether Dirk would've won those same Celtics titles in place of Bird. I still say that if you swap out Bird for Dirk, Boston still wins those championships.

All that being said, Dirk is still one of my favorite players ever and I still don't think the NBA-watching world truly appreciates how special a player he is. Sorta like David Robinson. I still don't think David Robinson quite gets the amount of adulation he deserves - probably because he didn't win until Duncan got there - but that's a different conversation.

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Kid Cairo's Boers & Bernstein YouTube Channel

Kid Cairo: 2013 March Madness Tournament Winner!

"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

Dirk will never be Larry Legend, but this means more than KG's ring for legacy talks.

I've never had such a strong change of heart on a player this late in a career.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=a ... als_061311

Really great article from Wojnarowski on Dirk/LeBron

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Team Cutler.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."