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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:24 am 
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"You know how I know this? Because the players made $2.1 billion dollars this year … and again the owners lost $300 million. Hold on, I have their $300 million right here: Vince Carter ($17.5m), Richard Hamilton ($12.5m), Baron Davis ($13m), Jose Calderon ($9m), Gilbert Arenas ($17.7m), Rashard Lewis ($19.6m), Michael Redd ($18.3m), Matt Carroll ($4.3m), Mike Dunleavy ($10.6m), Jason Kapono ($6.6m), Andrei Kirilenko ($17.8m), Marvin Williams ($7.2m), Jared Jeffries ($6.8m), Vlad Radmanovic ($6.8m), Hedo Turkoglu ($10.2m), Boris Diaw ($9m), Marcus Banks ($4.8m), Joel Pryzbilla ($7.4m), TJ Ford (8.5m), Darius Songalia ($4.8m), Andris Biedrins ($9m), Yao Ming ($17.7m), Sam Dalembert ($13.4m), Memo Okur ($9.9m), DeSagana Diop ($6.4m), Jermaine O'Neal ($5.7m), Eddy Curry ($11.2m), Dan Gadzuric ($7.2m), Troy Murphy ($11.9m). Boom! Everyone on that list ranges from "violently overpaid" to "brazenly stole money and hasn't been arrested yet."


:lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:17 am 
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More good stuff from this site. The quality of writing on Grantland is impressive so far.

Quote:
The fact that such a great player has been reduced to a cliché, and that the cliché describes his failings, should be a story in itself. But LeBron's performance in the Finals and the echo from the end of the Boston series exist somewhere outside our usual rhythm of "watch, react, and relate." In the postgame press conference, a reporter asked LeBron and Wade about the word "choke" and if they felt as if they had choked the series away. LeBron let Wade answer, but what struck me about the question wasn't Wade's tepid answer or LeBron's deferral, but rather that the word "choke" doesn't seem to really describe what happened in this series. LeBron did not shrink up in the moment. He did not miss big shots or free throws. He did not turn the ball over or travel or call a timeout. Instead, he just kind of wasn't there. And what was even weirder than the public's lack of surprise, or LeBron's hostile postgame press conference, or even the defensiveness with which he carried himself throughout the season, was just how the villain in this particular tragedy felt staid, warmed-over.

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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:24 am 
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Beat me to it, FF. I was also going to post this thought by the same writer:

With LeBron, one gets the feeling that even if his story never drags itself out of this chapter, we have already exhausted our desire to figure out why.


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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:44 pm 
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To me this is a point better illustrated without the mouse

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when you're saddled with a shaky goalie, when you keep telling yourself that hockey is a team sport and saying all the right things … and yet, that fucking goalie is still staring at you, the weak link, the fresh fish, the one you know you can't trust

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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:56 am 
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I can't wait until the site gets over it's Boston-AL Eastcentric writing. Oh wait...

Chuck Klosterman is going to be the star of this site and the long form writing is excellent the piece on the Stanley Cup yesterday was a great lunch break read.

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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:06 am 
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I realize by Simmons tweets he wants to seem concerned, but honestly how hard is it to get a super mainstream website up and available on iPhones/iPads? I've seen much sittier run sites withstand the pressure much better. Early fail, regardless of excuses

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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:09 am 
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Psycory wrote:
I can't wait until the site gets over it's Boston-AL Eastcentric writing. Oh wait...

Chuck Klosterman is going to be the star of this site and the long form writing is excellent the piece on the Stanley Cup yesterday was a great lunch break read.


I feel like your point about the long form writing somewhat invalidates your Klosterman point. This isn't Bill vs Chuck. It's obvious Chuck is the superior wordsmith, but the site seems more focusd on writing craftsmanship than most similar sites, that is why it could potentially be very appealing

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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:44 pm 
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Klosterman outshines Simmons on nearly all of their podcast conversations on the BS Report. You can download their old podcasts from the ESPN website. If you enjoy Klosterman's writing, check out Sex, Drugs, and Cocoa Puffs. It's a collection of chapters on different pop culture topics from the late 80s to 2000.

I just skimmed through Klosterman's article on sports and the DVR since he has discussed it before. I don't agree with his ideas on watching sports live. I watch most Blackhawk games on some form of delay so I don't have to watch intermissions and commercials.

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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:24 pm 
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Klosterman wrote:
Since every band starts on the same 100-point scale, the GRM and the ARV allow us only to measure a group against itself, which generates a logic gap (certainly, the 19 points Morrissey gets for being the principle lyricist in the Smiths doesn't accurately compare with the 19 points Pete Wentz gets for being the principle lyricist in Fall Out Boy). In order to calculate someone's "Real" Rock VORM (RRV), we need to multiply his or her personal ARV by the "established value" of the group itself. A group's established value encompasses all aspects of its existence (musical and otherwise). All bands are ranked on a scale of 1.0 to .01, with the Beatles representing the 1.0 designation. Due to space limitations, I can't list the established value of every single band that has ever existed — but here's a partial list:4

1.0: The Beatles
.989: The Rolling Stones
.98: Led Zeppelin
.97: The Jimi Hendrix Experience, the Beach Boys, the Velvet Underground, Pizzicato Five
.929: Black Sabbath, CCR
.914: Steely Dan, Bad Brains
.91: The Replacements, the Smiths
.909: The Clash
.88: Thin Lizzy, The Carpenters
.84: The Stooges
.825: Pavement, Radiohead, the Grateful Dead, The Police
.81: R.E.M.
.78: Nirvana, Parliament-Funkadelic
.71: ZZ Top
.7099: The Pixies
.685: Queen, Cheap Trick
.62: The Faces, Fleetwood Mac
.635: Oasis, Sleater-Kinney, Rush
.6: The Drive-By Truckers, Sleep
.59: Sonic Youth, Motley Crue, the Go-Gos
.55: My Morning Jacket, Rancid, Thomas Jefferson Slave Apartments
.543: The Fall, Journey
.53: The Chills, The Eagles, The Stone Roses, Cinderella
.47: Metallica, U2, Soundgarden, the Japandroids
.469: REO Speedwagon, Husker Du, Wings, Best Coast, Slade
.444: Sweet, Poison, Crosby Stills & Nash, Depeche Mode, Supergrass
.39: Ra Ra Riot, Cornershop, Dokken, Roxy Music
.345: Aerosmith, Styx, Paramour5, Black Oak Arkansas
.32: Uriah Heep, Grizzly Bear
.3: Spacehog.6
.28: Rage Against the Machine, Rilo Kiley, The Doors
.24: Primus, Black Flag, Yngwie Malmsteen's Rising Force
.2: The Dave Matthews Band, Wavves, Foo Fighters
.18: April Wine, Black Eyed Peas, Joy Division
.15: Incubus, Spoon, Gaslight Anthem, Iron and Wine
.1: Porno for Pyros, Kaiser Chiefs, Bat for Lashes, Asia
.05: Crash Test Dummies
.025: Green Day, Alabama
.01: The Fabulous Thunderbirds

I will concede that some of these rankings are debatable


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:02 pm 
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For whatever it's worth, Klosterman was a writer for Spin magazine. I've always enjoyed listening to him discuss music since it seems like he knows what he's talking about.

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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:24 pm 
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:lol: yeah guys and bill Simmons is from Boston, not sure if that's well known or not

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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:58 pm 
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The fiberglass backboard article by Bryan Curtis is just fantastic. Especially for anyone who used endless hours as a kid shooting in driveways thinking about issues related to growing up.

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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:32 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
The fiberglass backboard article by Bryan Curtis is just fantastic. Especially for anyone who used endless hours as a kid shooting in driveways thinking about issues related to growing up.

+ 1000

Absolutely great article. I can certainly relate.


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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:33 pm 
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Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
The fiberglass backboard article by Bryan Curtis is just fantastic. Especially for anyone who used endless hours as a kid shooting in driveways thinking about issues related to growing up.

+ 1000

Absolutely great article. I can certainly relate.


Coming to make the same comment.

I really like most of the articles they are putting up at point. A must visit daily for me

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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:35 pm 
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Agreed Dan.

I was hoping Malcolm Gladwell would be a contributor. One of the best long form writers out there and seems perfect for this site

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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:40 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Klosterman wrote:
Since every band starts on the same 100-point scale, the GRM and the ARV allow us only to measure a group against itself, which generates a logic gap (certainly, the 19 points Morrissey gets for being the principle lyricist in the Smiths doesn't accurately compare with the 19 points Pete Wentz gets for being the principle lyricist in Fall Out Boy). In order to calculate someone's "Real" Rock VORM (RRV), we need to multiply his or her personal ARV by the "established value" of the group itself. A group's established value encompasses all aspects of its existence (musical and otherwise). All bands are ranked on a scale of 1.0 to .01, with the Beatles representing the 1.0 designation. Due to space limitations, I can't list the established value of every single band that has ever existed — but here's a partial list:4

1.0: The Beatles
.989: The Rolling Stones
.98: Led Zeppelin
.97: The Jimi Hendrix Experience, the Beach Boys, the Velvet Underground, Pizzicato Five
.929: Black Sabbath, CCR
.914: Steely Dan, Bad Brains
.91: The Replacements, the Smiths
.909: The Clash
.88: Thin Lizzy, The Carpenters
.84: The Stooges
.825: Pavement, Radiohead, the Grateful Dead, The Police
.81: R.E.M.
.78: Nirvana, Parliament-Funkadelic
.71: ZZ Top
.7099: The Pixies
.685: Queen, Cheap Trick
.62: The Faces, Fleetwood Mac
.635: Oasis, Sleater-Kinney, Rush
.6: The Drive-By Truckers, Sleep
.59: Sonic Youth, Motley Crue, the Go-Gos
.55: My Morning Jacket, Rancid, Thomas Jefferson Slave Apartments
.543: The Fall, Journey
.53: The Chills, The Eagles, The Stone Roses, Cinderella
.47: Metallica, U2, Soundgarden, the Japandroids
.469: REO Speedwagon, Husker Du, Wings, Best Coast, Slade
.444: Sweet, Poison, Crosby Stills & Nash, Depeche Mode, Supergrass
.39: Ra Ra Riot, Cornershop, Dokken, Roxy Music
.345: Aerosmith, Styx, Paramour5, Black Oak Arkansas
.32: Uriah Heep, Grizzly Bear
.3: Spacehog.6
.28: Rage Against the Machine, Rilo Kiley, The Doors
.24: Primus, Black Flag, Yngwie Malmsteen's Rising Force
.2: The Dave Matthews Band, Wavves, Foo Fighters
.18: April Wine, Black Eyed Peas, Joy Division
.15: Incubus, Spoon, Gaslight Anthem, Iron and Wine
.1: Porno for Pyros, Kaiser Chiefs, Bat for Lashes, Asia
.05: Crash Test Dummies
.025: Green Day, Alabama
.01: The Fabulous Thunderbirds

I will concede that some of these rankings are debatable


:lol: :lol: :lol:


Oasis is still too high on that list :P

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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:43 pm 
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So is Green Day but it's not a bad list

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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:53 pm 
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:D

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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:05 am 
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Always nice to see Klosterman's awful taste on display once again.

Also, this guy's takedown of Simmons/Grantland was pretty much on the mark: http://www.mrdestructo.com/2011/05/bill ... tland.html

Favorite part:
Quote:
Allegedly it's a serious sports website maintained by a man whose critical rigorousness about sports can often be measured by going to the IMDB "memorable quotes" page for a movie and trying to apply it to some random category like "interceptions made by New England Patriots, 2001-2010." Allegedly it's a serious cultural website maintained by a man whose cultural mind looks like one of those spooky MRIs of "ecstasy brains," with all the black dead spots, and a bit where someone burned "SWEEP THE LEG" into it with a laser scalpel. Its celebrity contributors list reads like a Who's Who of people whose only metric for understanding the human experience is the singular preciousness of themselves or the nauseating insipidity of corporate-retreat science.


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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:07 am 
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Allegedly, whoever authored that article is an idiot. Grantland is about writing craftsmanship. And every contributor on there is better at that craft than "mrdestructo"

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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:10 am 
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Did you even read the entire post? Pretending that hacks like Simmons, Klosterman, Gladwell, or Lambert exhibit anything resembling "writing craftsmanship" is an insult to the written word. Shallow sports analysis, stale movie references, and banal observations do not make for some kind of revolution in sportswriting. The best thing to appear on the site so far was Phillips' Federer piece, and even that's pretty much a comparatively unsatisfying David Foster Wallace impression.


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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:26 am 
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Of course I read the post, that's why I responded. I didn't read the article you linked cuz the quote was stupid enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:34 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Of course I read the post, that's why I responded. I didn't read the article you linked cuz the quote was stupid enough.

Well I'm glad that you were able to conclude he couldn't measure up to the writing skills of the Grantland craftsmen from that single (dead-on) excerpt. It's a bit like how Simmons analyzes sports.


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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:38 am 
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That's fine. I'm not here to impress you, I don't even recognize your name.

If you think Gladwell's writing is movie references and lame sports analysis you couldn't have sounded more ignorant. Congrats.

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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:57 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
That's fine. I'm not here to impress you, I don't even recognize your name.

If you think Gladwell's writing is movie references and lame sports analysis you couldn't have sounded more ignorant. Congrats.

You're right, that's mainly Simmons' forte (though Gladwell's sports analysis is also mediocre, as best represented by his concussion article). I should have included "simplistic scientific writing on topics only superficially understood" in my list to represent Gladwell's contribution to the revolution.


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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:58 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Allegedly, whoever authored that article is an idiot. Grantland is about writing craftsmanship. And every contributor on there is better at that craft than "mrdestructo"


This.

It's funny how as soon as a new website or idea is published on the net, there is always some talking head ready and waiting to tell everyone exactly how "bad" it supposedly is.


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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:11 am 
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Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:
It's funny how as soon as a new website or idea is published on the net, there is always some talking head ready and waiting to tell everyone exactly how "bad" it supposedly is.


Very true. There are always some fancy pants looking to crush something. Why not give it a couple months before reviewing it?

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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:23 am 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
That's fine. I'm not here to impress you, I don't even recognize your name.

If you think Gladwell's writing is movie references and lame sports analysis you couldn't have sounded more ignorant. Congrats.

You're right, that's mainly Simmons' forte (though Gladwell's sports analysis is also mediocre, as best represented by his concussion article). I should have included "simplistic scientific writing on topics only superficially understood" in my list to represent Gladwell's contribution to the revolution.


You clearly don't have any journalism training/education. There's a reason sports writing is called the toy department of the industry. Get a clue before spouting off.

You may fool some people sometimes, but anyone who knows anything about writing can tell you are pulling random personal insults out of your ass and disguising them as professional criticisms.

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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:30 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
You clearly don't have any journalism training/education. There's a reason sports writing is called the toy department of the industry. Get a clue before spouting off.

You may fool some people sometimes, but anyone who knows anything about writing can tell you are pulling random personal insults out of your ass and disguising them as professional criticisms.


Exactly.

Everything Zeph has said about Grantland.com can be easily summed up: "I don't like Bill Simmons."


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 Post subject: Re: Grantland
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:49 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
You clearly don't have any journalism training/education. There's a reason sports writing is called the toy department of the industry. Get a clue before spouting off.

You may fool some people sometimes, but anyone who knows anything about writing can tell you are pulling random personal insults out of your ass and disguising them as professional criticisms.

Do you just resort to credentialism whenever you can't respond to an argument (see also "I watch NBA games better than anyone else!")?
Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:
Exactly.

Everything Zeph has said about Grantland.com can be easily summed up: "I don't like Bill Simmons."

I don't think that's all the article I linked to was saying; the author was making several points about Simmons' relationship with ESPN, the laziness and vanity displayed in many of his columns over the years, and the overall approach to pop culture that the site represents. I don't even hate Bill Simmons a great deal and I enjoy his writing/podcasts (and that of some of the other names on the site) as cotton candy from time to time. Most of my arguments after my first post in this thread have grown out of FavreFan's bizarre idea (supported by nothing more sophisticated than "I like Bill Simmons.") that such cotton candy actually represents serious "craftsmanship."


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