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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:58 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
They choose to infringe on the right to feel the wind in your hair vs. the right to ride a motorcycle..

This is the strawman.
The rights are not "feeling the wind in your hair".

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:00 am 
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"There are many things you can point to as proof that the human is not smart. But my personal favorite would have to be that we needed to invent the helmet. What was happening, apparently, was that we were involved in a lot of activities that were cracking our heads. We chose not to avoid doing those activities but, instead, to come up with some sort of device to help us enjoy our head-cracking lifestyles. And even that didn't work because not enough people were wearing them so we had to come up with the helmet law. Which is even stupider, the idea behind the helmet law being to preserve a brain whose judgment is so poor, it does not even try to avoid the cracking of the head it's in."


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:00 am 
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Darkside wrote:
I don't think "wind in the hair" is an honest assessment of the benefit, sir.
What is the benefit to not wearing a helmet while riding a motorcycle?
Darkside wrote:
You're too willing, in my opinion, to be told how to live your life by some anonymous jerk who has never met you, yet knows how you need to live.
That's what it's like to live in a democracy. I may not agree with everything but in general I think that they do a good job of weighing the pros and cons of a situation. If I were to choose my battles, something so obviously dangerous with no real benefit would not be my complaint.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:06 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Darkside wrote:
I don't think "wind in the hair" is an honest assessment of the benefit, sir.
What is the benefit to not wearing a helmet while riding a motorcycle?

Please explain how you need to have a "benefit"? If you enjoy doing something, during which you're not going to hurt anyone but yourself, I see the benefit as being personal enjoyment.
If you said to me that any passengers on a motorcycle must wear helmets, I might agree with you. But since there is no additional harm to anyone other than the driver of the cycle, I think of it as an unnecessary law.
In fact, the argument can be made that helmets make riding much more dangerous, particularly in an urban environment.

BR wrote:
That's what it's like to live in a democracy. I may not agree with everything but in general I think that they do a good job of weighing the pros and cons of a situation. If I were to choose my battles, something so obviously dangerous with no real benefit would not be my complaint.


I believe in slippery slopes. See, the secondary seat belt laws would have sufficed to enhance public safety and encourage the public to use seatbelts. But that wasn't enough, once someone realized how great a tool it was in order to further encroach on your security. Now, they put up roadblocks to check for seatbelts. Is the roadblock making driving more safe than the original seat belt laws did? Or is it used as a tool to get into your vehicle if they want to.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:15 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
"There are many things you can point to as proof that the human is not smart. But my personal favorite would have to be that we needed to invent the helmet. What was happening, apparently, was that we were involved in a lot of activities that were cracking our heads. We chose not to avoid doing those activities but, instead, to come up with some sort of device to help us enjoy our head-cracking lifestyles. And even that didn't work because not enough people were wearing them so we had to come up with the helmet law. Which is even stupider, the idea behind the helmet law being to preserve a brain whose judgment is so poor, it does not even try to avoid the cracking of the head it's in."


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:25 am 
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Darkside wrote:
Please explain how you need to have a "benefit"? If you enjoy doing something, during which you're not going to hurt anyone but yourself, I see the benefit as being personal enjoyment.
If you said to me that any passengers on a motorcycle must wear helmets, I might agree with you. But since there is no additional harm to anyone other than the driver of the cycle, I think of it as an unnecessary law.
In fact, the argument can be made that helmets make riding much more dangerous, particularly in an urban environment.
I do not believe that dangerous activities should be completely unregulated. The dangers should be mitigated as much as possible without significantly altering the experience. That's how I view what my rights should be. If I have to make a tradeoff for a significant increase in safety that I have to wear a piece of plastic on my head I think that's fair. I think the government has to balance protection vs. freedom. The balance in the case of helmet laws is about as far as it can get in terms of protection vs. freedom.
Darkside wrote:
I believe in slippery slopes. See, the secondary seat belt laws would have sufficed to enhance public safety and encourage the public to use seatbelts. But that wasn't enough, once someone realized how great a tool it was in order to further encroach on your security. Now, they put up roadblocks to check for seatbelts. Is the roadblock making driving more safe than the original seat belt laws did? Or is it used as a tool to get into your vehicle if they want to.
I would not support future laws if they go too far. This one does not.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:29 am 
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Obviously all of these debates centralize on whether or not you believe the government has an obligation to protect it's citizens from themselves. I do not.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:33 am 
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Didn't we have discussions about this topic during the bikerboard invasion? Seems the general consensus was let em ride helmet free. More organ donors that way.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:36 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I do not believe that dangerous activities should be completely unregulated. The dangers should be mitigated as much as possible without significantly altering the experience. That's how I view what my rights should be. If I have to make a tradeoff for a significant increase in safety that I have to wear a piece of plastic on my head I think that's fair. I think the government has to balance protection vs. freedom. The balance in the case of helmet laws is about as far as it can get in terms of protection vs. freedom.

We're gonna disagree on basic philosophy on this issue.
I think that the government has no business in how you handle your personal affairs, especially when you are harming no one other than yourself.

BR wrote:
I would not support future laws if they go too far. This one does not.

Not yet (in your opinion, not mine). But it WILL. It's little more than a matter of time. The seat belt laws are a great example. Fines go higher, roadblocks are now commonplace, we've gone from secondary to primary enforcement, and now, we're supposed to have backseat passengers buckled in which means that in most cars, a cop literally has to stick his head in your car to see if the backseat passengers are wearing their lap belts. That's right, a cop gets to stick his face in your car.
Laws always go too far. It's less a matter of if than it is of when.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:42 am 
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BRick values safety over all other virtues. That's why he hits the McDonald's bathroom during road trips.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:48 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
BRick values safety over all other virtues. That's why he hits the McDonald's bathroom during road trips.
In general they are also cleaner than most other options and more readily available. It wasn't fun when driving through Vermont that they seemingly did not exist.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:16 am 
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Keeping Score wrote:
You have to wonder what the bathroom's look like at WhiteCastle.

Well, at least we know what they look like at BlackCastle's

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:59 am 
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beni hanna wrote:
Didn't we have discussions about this topic during the bikerboard invasion? Seems the general consensus was let em ride helmet free. More organ donors that way.


Exactly. Also, can we stop wasting taxpayer money on anti-smoking initiatives and ad campaigns? People who smoke die very quickly and relatively cheaply--lung cancer survival is about 6 months once diagnosed. Our social security and medicare systems cannot handle more old people living longer. If anyone is still dumb enough to smoke, let em smoke.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:45 pm 
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Keeping Score wrote:
Here's an example of somebody that WAS wearing a helmet:



just as the saying goes, when you're falling that far down, the helmet is wearing you.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:15 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
How appropriate this occurred on 4th of July weekend. I'd rather die on my Harley than live on my knees.


:salut:


That is how my dad went out. God rest his soul.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:46 pm 
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If motorcycles were invented today, there's no chance in hell that the Coast2Coast's of the world would ever allow them on the road.

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