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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:29 pm 
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Keeping Score wrote:
Telegram Sam wrote:
In some Metal Documentary on VH1, Dee Snyder posited that the unexpected success of "Home Sweet Home" by Motley Crue led other bands and labels to release a mandatory Power Ballad single each time out. The eventual Prom-songification of the genre created a stagnation and a void that eventually was filled by Pearl Jam, AIC, etc. So Motley Crue and opportunism killed '80's/early '90's metal, not Nirvana.



No, no.....I believe it was the Rolling Stones and Angie back in '73 that sent this thing spiraling downward


I think songs like "Home Sweet Home" or "When the Children Cry" or whatever owe more Aerosmith's "You See Me Cryin,'" Kiss' "Beth," or a few Alice Cooper songs. But those were kind of one-offs, and didn't become the song you associate with those bands. When something like "Home Sweet Home" or "Every Rose Has It's Thorn" becomes a monster genre-crossing hit (much like your favorite country ingenue's songs,) the record companies smelled money and made these schmaltzy indulgences the centerpiece of their marketing and radio/video push. It cheapened the genre, and alienated it''s core audience - teenage boys,who found something else. Happens every 10 years or so.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:35 pm 
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You could argue Def Leppard fucked it all up with Hysteria.
In order:
1987
"Women"
"Animals"
"Pour Some Sugar On Me"
"Hysteria"
1988
"Armaggedon It"
"Love Bites"
1989
"Rocket"

I remember when the video for "Rocket" came out and thought..."these guys are still milking this album?"
That's when my 13 year old brain started processing the music biz.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:35 pm 
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Keeping Score wrote:
And Dee Snider is just wrong if you recalled that correctly. Home Sweet Home was released in 1985. All kinds of rock/power ballads were released before then, were very successful, and were not different than the Crue's HSH.

Scorpions - Still Loving You 1984
The Cars - Drive 1984
Foreigner - I Want To Know What Love Is 1984
Journey - Faithfully 1982
Nicks/Petty - Stop Draggin' 1981
Journey - Open Arms 1981
April Wine - Just between You and Me - 1981
REO Speedwagon - Keep On Loving You 1980
Styx - Babe 1979
Eric Clapton - Woderful Tonight 1977
Kiss - Beth 1976
McCartney - My Love 1973

to name a few.......and I believe the Beatles and Zeppelin had about 10 apiece.


Journey and REO Speedwagon pretty much made their entire careers off of these songs.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:41 pm 
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Keeping Score wrote:
Man, I don't know Phil. Early REO kicked ass for the most part. Same with Journey, but to a lesser extent for me.

The band for me that kicked ass early and then got weepy and lame was Def Leppard. Their first two albums are really good but Pyromania is an overproduced pile of dog crap.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:42 pm 
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Keeping Score wrote:
And Dee Snider is just wrong if you recalled that correctly. Home Sweet Home was released in 1985. All kinds of rock/power ballads were released before then, were very successful, and were not different than the Crue's HSH.

Scorpions - Still Loving You 1984
The Cars - Drive 1984
Foreigner - I Want To Know What Love Is 1984
Journey - Faithfully 1982
Nicks/Petty - Stop Draggin' 1981
Journey - Open Arms 1981
April Wine - Just between You and Me - 1981
REO Speedwagon - Keep On Loving You 1980
Styx - Babe 1979
Eric Clapton - Woderful Tonight 1977
Kiss - Beth 1976
McCartney - My Love 1973

to name a few.......and I believe the Beatles and Zeppelin had about 10 apiece.


Not the same , though. With the exception of the Scorpions (and that song wasn't a huge crossover hit,) None of those bands are identified with your definition of Metal, and tenuously at best with Hard Rock. A better argument could be made for Def Leppard's "Bringin' On the Heartache," which I believe was '82 or so. None of those artist were doing "Shout at the Devil" 2 years prior to their slow dance songs, and although Kiss could have released a Calypso album and the Kiss army would have bought it, none of those others listed were primarily selling t-shirts, records, and concert tickets to 14-18 year old boys when they released their big ballad.

EDIT: Doug noted the Def Leppard exception first.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:02 pm 
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doug - evergreen park wrote:
the video for Smells Like Teen Spirit killed the 80s early 90s metal era.


I don't study pop music history but wasn't there a shift in music every 5 years or so in the pre-internet days? Hair band, not metal, had a huge run from about '83/84 to '92. Wasn't it just natural that a shift in style was going to occur? We say it was because of Nirvana but wouldn't it have been someone else if not them? Granted, part of the reason for this shift in style was the greatness of Nirvana and Pearl Jam. Both of them, came out with all-time great albums and there was nobody in the hair rock genre to measure up.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:15 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:02 pm 
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I thought Metallica selling out killed off metal


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:06 pm 
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I thought Warrant rocked when the DRFSR album graced the airwaves. I was also 9.

...and for the record...Nelson Killed the hair metal era. Christian rock rocks the fuck out of "After the rain".

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:10 pm 
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Urlacher's missing neck wrote:

...and for the record...Nelson Killed the hair metal era.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:28 pm 
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Keeping Score wrote:
But I still blame Nirvana.


Blame is the wrong word. How about rescued?

Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Smashing Pumpkins, Soundgarden, STP and then the bands that followed such as Radiohead, Pavement, and the Flaming Lips were all immensley better than the hair bands.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:57 pm 
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Keeping Score wrote:
"Hair Bands" is just so misused and not valid. There's really only Warrant, Poison, Winger, later Def Leppard probably, Bon Jovi, Sammy Van Halen, late Aerosmith, Loverboy, maybe Ratt/maybe not, couple others.

Groups like the Cinderella, Skid Row, Crue, Roth Halen, Whitesnake, GNR, Metalllica, Dokken, Ozzy, Tesla, Scorpions, Rush, Dio, Queensryche, Krokus, Dokken, ACDC....were all anywhere from rock to hard rock to heavy metal.


I think you have varying degrees of hair rock to hard rock. On one side you have bands like Poison and Winger and on the other side you have GNR and Motley Crue. And even most of those acts you listed as hard rock all recorded the power ballads which were most indicative of a hair band. Even Ozzy had a ballad. The lines get blurred pretty quickly.

I would contend that Cinderella and Skid Row were more of a hair band than hard rock and Crue's Theatre of Pain and parts of Dr. Feelgood were definitely hair bandish. I don't know what all this amounts to but it is fun going down memory lane.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:05 pm 
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Keeping Score wrote:
It's actually even amazing that you can like music from both genres like that DAC. Most people can't and don't. More power to you!


I cut my teeth on Motley Crue. My older sister played Shout at the Devil over and over and over. I could be drunk as hell and still recite In the Beginning and not miss a beat. I still listen to Crue, old Metallica, and Anthrax when I am working out.

As I was finishing HS, grunge became popular and I embraced that as well. Hell, there's even some good country music out there if you look for it. But out of all of them, the Indie music over the last 10 years or so has been my favorite type of music.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:38 pm 
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Keeping Score wrote:
DAC, the '81 album Too fast For Love is often overlooked. It shouldn't be.

Songs from Shout that are often overlooked are Ten Seconds To Love, Bastard, and Knock 'Em Dead Kid


You are preaching to the choir!!

TFFL was fantastic. Very underated!

Top 10 Favorite Crue Songs:
1) Kickstart my Heart
2) Shout at the Devil
3) Too Young to Fall in Love
4) Too Fast for Love
5) Ten Seconds to Love
6) Wild Side
7) Looks that Kill
8) Live Wire
9) Home Sweet Home
10) Primal Scream

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:00 pm 
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KS- Did you see them back in the summer?

I went a couple years back and loved seeing them.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:01 pm 
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Jani Lane will forever haunt your dreams, motherfuckers.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:06 pm 
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shirtless driver wrote:
Jani Lane will forever haunt your dreams, motherfuckers.

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Now I don't have to wake my wife up. :D

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:25 pm 
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Northside_Dan wrote:
In a Comfort Inn as well. The state fairs clearly don't pay what they used to


The state of Indiana says: +1 on the observation, -5 on lives.


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