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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:26 am 
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It's amazing how a comment from one guy puts Theo in charge of the Cub.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:15 am 
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I'm replacing my Crane Kenney jersey with an Epstein one. LITE 'EM UP!!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:04 pm 
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cpguy wrote:
RFDC wrote:
cpguy wrote:
What makes Epstein so great anyway?


2 World Series Trophies

And Epstein gets credit for that? I'd rather have Freidman.



Absolutely. A guy who can compete very well with the Yankees and Red Sox with a fraction of the payroll....yes please. They draft and develop the players well and when they lose a guy to a team like the Red Sox, (Crawford for example) they have a young player ready to take his place that does even better and they use the draft picks to load up some more. Thats the way I believe the Cubs want to do things. Not by overspending to spend over their mistakes.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:08 pm 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
cpguy wrote:
And Epstein gets credit for that? I'd rather have Freidman.



Absolutely. A guy who can compete very well with the Yankees and Red Sox with a fraction of the payroll....

I'd argue, but I guess 4/5 is technically a fraction...

...but yeah, getting Theo would be good for the Cub


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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:22 pm 
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lipidquadcab wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
cpguy wrote:
And Epstein gets credit for that? I'd rather have Freidman.



Absolutely. A guy who can compete very well with the Yankees and Red Sox with a fraction of the payroll....

I'd argue, but I guess 4/5 is technically a fraction...

...but yeah, getting Theo would be good for the Cub



No- Friedman competes with the Yankees and Red Sox with a fraction of their payrolls with the RAYS. He is the right guy for them to hire-NOT Epstein.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:50 pm 
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Friedman also had 15 years worth of top 5 picks to work with, something Epstien couldn't do because his team was, you know, winning.


edit: I would take either in a heartbeat.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:11 am 
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I dont like Epstein

I want more of a small-time GM

I dont want Epstein because then he will bully the division around for years to come by trying to sign big names like Hendry

fuck Epstein...i dont get why people want him

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:24 am 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
No- Friedman competes with the Yankees and Red Sox with a fraction of their payrolls with the RAYS. He is the right guy for them to hire-NOT Epstein.

Oh...well, I'm just gonna see myself out... :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:07 am 
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cpguy wrote:

One would have to have a lot more info at one's disposal to make that choice. GM's aren't like players obviously. No stats to evaluate, just track records. I just don't see that Epstein has really been all that great frankly. That Lackey contract was a joke. To me, the guy just throws a shitload of money around, second only to the Yankees.

He won a world series and three years later one another one with a completely different pitching staff.

You mention Gillick in another post, who actually is 2nd on the payroll list, not the Red Sox.


I could see firing Francona, it may have been time. But to blame Epstein? The problem with the team was certainly not talent.


Ill take Friedman, Epstein, or Beane


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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:06 am 
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The thing that some people are ignoring is the statements made by Ricketts recently about scouting and developing their own players and building an organization that is built for the long haul. Translation....the days of over-spending for players is over. Ricketts is NOT gonna spend like the Yankees or red Sox. therefore he needs a GM that can compete utilizing the draft and developing the talent they draft. That is Friedman. getting a gut thats used to spending for top talent and then telling him he has to approach this differently, makes no sense. You get the guy that has had great success doing it the way you want him to do it here. Friedman....accept no substitute.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:46 am 
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Pretty solid work here by Meatpants:

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/10/03/ ... warranted/

Quote:

Spiegel: Cubs Fans’ Theo Freakout Is Warranted

Remember when I told Cubs fans that they should be rooting hard for a Red Sox collapse? They got their wish. That organization is suddenly a bleeding carcass, and the Cubs may be there to feast on some of the carnage.

Theo Epstein dreams were fed mildly by Red Sox President/CEO Larry Lucchino at the Terry Francona farewell press conference, when he was asked about Theo’s future with the team. Lucchino said “we’re not prepared to answer that question here. This is a press conference about the contributions that Tito [Francona] has made to this franchise. Besides, Theo is under contract with us, so it is an issue that has not been addressed or discussed.”

That is not no. “No” hasn’t come from Boston on this issue, from anyone including Theo.

Then Saturday, this tweet from New York Post national baseball writer Joel Sherman, who is very respected, with excellent contacts around the game:
“I am shocked, but in last 36 hrs every exec talk to says believe #Redsox will give permission and Theo will go to #Cubs to be GM”

Here’s what I know.

The Cubs have absolutely been waiting for the end of the Red Sox season to talk to him. There are forces within the existing Cubs front office that go way back with Theo, to his days as a lowly PR assistant with the San Diego Padres in his 20’s.
Theo has several reasons to be unhappy in Boston. Ownership did not support Francona, while Theo clearly did. He and Francona had a great relationship, that went only mildly sour, and the manager bailed for reasons above and below the GM.
Theo felt a bit forced by ownership to make some of the recent big money moves that have blown up in his face. He knew Carl Crawford was a bad idea. It’s still his responsibility…you don’t absolve him of that, just as we don’t absolve Jim Hendry of Alfonso Soriano’s contract. Even if Crane Kenney and John McDonough were strong forces in that signing, the GM can and should stand tall and say no. But still, Theo may not want to be part of what I’ve called “Evil Empire B” in Boston anymore. He liked the building more than the maintenance.
That team is suddenly looking a bit old, lazy, and slow, with no great young starting pitchers in the pipeline. And down the stretch, they played with what Francona called “a sense of entitlement.” Some serious culture change needs to go on there; too many guys are fat and happy.
I’ve also been told there are some non-baseball issues in Boston that make Theo a little restless.

Tie to all of this the following: Crane Kenney is not being involved in baseball decisions at this moment in the organization. Maybe he was in the past, but he’s not now. The well-connected blogger who told us Crane Kenney will be out by season’s start next year…well, he stands by his source even more firmly today. Crane Kenney could absolutely be moved aside, or down in the organization if that’s what it took to get Theo.

It remains to be seen whether the Cubs will be used as leverage, and if Theo simply gets a promotion from Red Sox owner John Henry. Peter Gammons suggested over the weekend that the Red Sox could react by making Theo a “co-CEO,” with Lucchino, with Ben Cherington the GM. Cherington was present in all the major post-season organizational meetings.

Cubs fans should absolutely want Theo Epstein. Those that have called him an East Coast Hendry are being naively simplistic. Yes the last few years have seen some bad moves of gluttony, but look at all the homegrown talent. There’s Pedroia, Ellsbury, Buchholz, Lester, Bard, Papelbon and more, not to mention the prospects it took to get Josh Beckett out of Florida: Anibal Sanchez and Hanley Ramirez. Plus, Theo’s relationship with Francona is exactly what you want from a GM/manager. They shared the long-view, even as the short view was being satisfied.

For now, it’s more of a possibility than anyone could have dreamed, and the best imaginable outcome.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:48 am 
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Red Sox or Cubs, Meatpants still gets to have Theo GM "his team"

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:04 pm 
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immessedup17 wrote:
whistler wrote:
I dont like Epstein

I want more of a small-time GM

I dont want Epstein because then he will bully the division around for years to come by trying to sign big names like Hendry

fuck Epstein...i dont get why people want him

Because he has a winning track record? Because he would be a fantastic GM?

God you're a terrible bit.


read the article below...apparently im not the only one who thinks he is another Hendry
I love it when Im right

yes u can point to his prospects but I still dont like it

u dont bring a big-market mentality here...u deal with what u got

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:07 pm 
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He needs to get hired already before Randy Bush fucks up the Big Z for Logan Morrison deal with the Miami.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:45 am 
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Theo Epstein And Starting Pitching
By Tim Dierkes [October 4 at 9:41am CST]
Theo Epstein was hired as GM of the Red Sox on November 25th, 2002, so he's coming up on nine years at the helm. The fatal flaw with Epstein's disappointing 2011 club was starting pitching, which prompted me to investigate his work assembling rotations.

2003 - Won wild card. 4.30 rotation ERA ranked fifth in AL.

•Derek Lowe - acquired via trade by Dan Duquette in 1997.
•Tim Wakefield - signed as a free agent by Duquette in '95.
•Pedro Martinez - acquired by Duquette in '97.
•John Burkett - signed as a free agent by Duquette in '01.
•Casey Fossum - drafted by Duquette in '99.
Epstein had nothing to do with the '03 rotation, so we can strike it from his record.

2004 - Won World Series. 4.31 rotation ERA ranked third in AL.

•Curt Schilling - acquired by Epstein in '03.
•Pedro Martinez
•Tim Wakefield
•Derek Lowe
•Bronson Arroyo - claimed off waivers by Epstein in '03.
Epstein deserves credit for 40% of this group, and Schilling was of course crucial.

2005 - Won wild card. 4.56 rotation ERA ranked seventh in AL.

•Tim Wakefield - He signed an extension in '05 with a recurring $4MM club option, so perhaps he became part of Epstein's ledger here or with the '06 season.
•Bronson Arroyo
•Matt Clement - signed by Epstein in '04
•David Wells - signed by Epstein in '04.
•Curt Schilling
•Wade Miller - signed by Epstein in '04.
This was not an impressive group, and most of them can be attributed to Epstein.

2006 - Missed playoffs. 5.00 rotation ERA ranked 11th in AL.

•Josh Beckett - Seth Mnookin's 2006 book Feeding the Monster mainly credits president Larry Lucchino for the November '05 Beckett trade, as Epstein was on hiatus. The book says assistant GM Jed Hoyer was in constant consultation with Epstein at the time and was wary of making the deal. Beckett had a rough '06 season, during which Epstein extended him potentially through 2010.
•Curt Schilling
•Tim Wakefield
•Jon Lester - The 2002 draftee officially goes on the ledger of interim GM Mike Port, though Epstein was in the organization as assistant GM by that point.
•Matt Clement
•Kyle Snyder - claimed off waivers by Epstein in '06.
2007 - Won World Series. 4.21 rotation ERA ranked second in AL.

•Daisuke Matsuzaka - acquired by Epstein in '06 via the posting system.
•Tim Wakefield
•Josh Beckett
•Curt Schilling
•Julian Tavarez - signed by Epstein as a free agent in '06.
•Jon Lester
2008 - Won wild card. 4.02 rotation ERA ranked third in AL.

•Jon Lester
•Tim Wakefield
•Daisuke Matsuzaka
•Josh Beckett
•Clay Buchholz
2009 - Won wild card. 4.63 rotation ERA ranked eighth in AL.

•Josh Beckett
•Jon Lester - Prior to this season, Epstein signed Lester potentially through 2014.
•Brad Penny - signed by Epstein as a free agent in '08.
•Tim Wakefield
•Clay Buchholz - drafted by Epstein in '05.
•Daisuke Matsuzaka
•John Smoltz - signed by Epstein as a free agent in '09.
2010 - Missed playoffs. 4.17 rotation ERA ranked sixth in AL.

•John Lackey - signed by Epstein as a free agent in '09.
•Jon Lester
•Clay Buchholz
•Daisuke Matsuzaka
•Josh Beckett - A new extension for Beckett was completed by Epstein prior to this season, running through 2014.
•Tim Wakefield - Wakefield's recurring option had been exercised three times. Prior to this season, Epstein hammered out a new two-year extension.
2011 - Missed playoffs. 4.49 rotation ERA ranked ninth in AL.

•Jon Lester
•Josh Beckett
•John Lackey
•Tim Wakefield
•Clay Buchholz
•Andrew Miller - signed by Epstein as a free agent in '10.
Epstein has put together eight rotations in his time as Red Sox GM. Three could comfortably be described as above-average. Schilling and Arroyo, his best starting pitching acquisitions, came eight years ago. So far Buchholz has been the only drafted starting pitcher to make an impact in one of Epstein's rotations, with '06 pick Justin Masterson becoming a major piece of the '09 trade for Victor Martinez. While Matsuzaka has been disappointing as a whole, he made major contributions in '07 and '08. Epstein also deserves credit for extending Wakefield, Beckett, and Lester.

Free agent starting pitchers have been a problem, with significant dollars spent on Lackey, Clement, Penny, and Smoltz. And for a $103MM commitment, Dice-K has not paid off.

The Red Sox seem to have relative stability in their recent rotations, and Lester, Beckett, and Buchholz will be part of the 2012 group. Still, a major acquisition seems likely this offseason. For all of Epstein's positive contributions to the club, his ability to acquire good veteran starting pitching must be questioned.


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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:18 pm 
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Over the last 9 years, the Red Sox have had a 4.41 ERA. That is pretty damn good in the AL, and especially the AL East. They have the Yankees who are always in it, the Rays who have been very good for the past 4 years, and the Blue Jays have had a really good offense the past few years despite not winning anything,.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:27 pm 
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The worst thing you can say about him


Made some bad Starting pitching acquisitions so had to fall back on awesome starters devoloped thru his system (Lester, Buchholz)


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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:29 pm 
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Also factor in that Yankee Stadium, and Camden Yards are a couple of the most hitter friendly parks in MLB, and Fenway can be easy to hit HRs and doubles in depending on where you hit the ball.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:41 pm 
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The Boston Globe reports: The Chicago Cubs have asked the Boston Red Sox for permission to speak with Boston general manager Theo Epstein, according to a team source.

The Globe's Dan Shaughnessy says Red Sox officials met Tuesday afternoon at Fenway Park to discuss their response to the Cubs' request.

Epstein, 37, is under contract with the Red Sox, who could refuse the request.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:05 pm 
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I still want Friedman. Get on it FanBoy.


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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:14 pm 
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If Ricketts hires Theo, I will take back everything I have said about him.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:48 am 
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You should be happy with the hire. He is a proven GM with a history of turning around a loser who I think is looking for his next challenge.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:35 pm 
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so what takes so long to grant the request to talk to him or deny it?

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:47 pm 
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I have said from the beginning that Friedman is the best hire. However, it seems to me that the Ricketts family is fully infatuated with the Red Sox organization and wish to model themselves as closely as possible to Boston. The fact that it's been a couple days and no word has come that Epstein has declined an offer or that the Sox have refused to release him from his contract is interesting. It may well mean that the parties are trying to come to an agreement to satisfy all parties. There has been mention of possible compensation, should Epstein take the Cubs job. Perhaps the terms of compensation to the Red Sox as well as working out the contractual terms of Epsteins deal as new GM is whats being hammered out right now???

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:37 am 
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I have a feeling that today or tomorrow the Cubs are going to introduce their new GM and Team President, Theo Epstein.

If that happens, good fucking job Tom.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:37 am 
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Northside_Dan wrote:
I have a feeling that today or tomorrow the Cubs are going to introduce their new GM and Team President, Theo Epstein.

If that happens, good fucking job Tom.

I hope you are correct.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:18 am 
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Northside_Dan wrote:
I have a feeling that today or tomorrow the Cubs are going to introduce their new GM and Team President, Theo Epstein.

If that happens, good fucking job Tom.


Just a feeling? Or did you borrow Bucky Chris's guy?

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:19 am 
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RFDC wrote:
Northside_Dan wrote:
I have a feeling that today or tomorrow the Cubs are going to introduce their new GM and Team President, Theo Epstein.

If that happens, good fucking job Tom.


Just a feeling? Or did you borrow Bucky Chris's guy?


Just a feeling. With the way the Hendry situation was handled, the rhetoric coming out of Boston and tomorrow being an off day for the playoffs, it would make sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:29 am 
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Northside_Dan wrote:
I have a feeling that today or tomorrow the Cubs are going to introduce their new GM and Team President, Theo Epstein.

If that happens, good fucking job Tom.


that would be the biggest move the cubs have made since, well, since the hired Andy MacPhail. those were the days.


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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:31 am 
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Still think Theo is just leveraging a new deal.

Id say the Red Sox will annonunce an extension for him.


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