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 Post subject: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:06 am 
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I know he'd never sign on the North side, but I'd give him 3 yrs 36M. He'd help the rotation and help them be respectable and maybe by 2014, he'd help bring them a trophy if they get lucky.


Last edited by cpguy on Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:07 am 
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cpguy wrote:
I know he'd never sign on the North side, but I'd give him 3 yrs 36M. He'd help the rotation and help them be respectable and maybe be 2014, he'd help bring them a trophy if they get lucky.


So you want them to build through homegrown talent and sign an old pitcher who does not have much time left?

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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:11 am 
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RFDC wrote:
cpguy wrote:
I know he'd never sign on the North side, but I'd give him 3 yrs 36M. He'd help the rotation and help them be respectable and maybe be 2014, he'd help bring them a trophy if they get lucky.


So you want them to build through homegrown talent and sign an old pitcher who does not have much time left?

Lefties can pitch forever and yes, you can't have 100% of the rotation off the farm esp. the Cubs farm as presently constituted. It'll never happen though but I respect the hell out of Buehrle.


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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:15 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:15 am 
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immessedup17 wrote:
Why would the Cubs sign a veteran pitcher to a lot of money over 3 years...when the Cubs cannot possibly be a true contender in the next 2 seasons?

Let us just piss money away.

cpguy, this is why you are the third worst Cubs poster on the board, behind 312 and whistler. You need to THINK.

Assuming Shark and Cashner go into the rotation, they'll need a veteran leader to show them the ropes besides Dempster and Garza. Plus that might actually be a pretty damn good rotation and they need a lefty.


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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:17 am 
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The way he pitches, he can easily go five more years.
There is no reason he wouldn't go north.
That said, I think he will get 3-years/$45 million or 4-years/$56 million from someone.
Take a look at the market out there and who is available.
200-inning, double-digit-win pitchers get that kind of dough, plus he is a lefty.
By the way, Mark told me on my radio show a few years back that he thought he'd end up
being a 300-game winner for his career.
Sounds like a guy who plans on pitching for a while to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:19 am 
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SteveSarley wrote:
The way he pitches, he can easily go five more years.
There is no reason he wouldn't go north.
That said, I think he will get 3-years/$45 million or 4-years/$56 million from someone.
Take a look at the market out there and who is available.
200-inning, double-digit-win pitchers get that kind of dough, plus he is a lefty.
By the way, Mark told me on my radio show a few years back that he thought he'd end up
being a 300-game winner for his career.
Sounds like a guy who plans on pitching for a while to me.

Another Tom Glavine if he wants to pitch that long. I'd be shocked if he'd come to the Cubs though.


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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:19 am 
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SteveSarley wrote:
The way he pitches, he can easily go five more years.
There is no reason he wouldn't go north.
That said, I think he will get 3-years/$45 million or 4-years/$56 million from someone.
Take a look at the market out there and who is available.
200-inning, double-digit-win pitchers get that kind of dough, plus he is a lefty.
By the way, Mark told me on my radio show a few years back that he thought he'd end up
being a 300-game winner for his career.
Sounds like a guy who plans on pitching for a while to me.


Another 12 years to get to 300.


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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:23 am 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
SteveSarley wrote:
The way he pitches, he can easily go five more years.
There is no reason he wouldn't go north.
That said, I think he will get 3-years/$45 million or 4-years/$56 million from someone.
Take a look at the market out there and who is available.
200-inning, double-digit-win pitchers get that kind of dough, plus he is a lefty.
By the way, Mark told me on my radio show a few years back that he thought he'd end up
being a 300-game winner for his career.
Sounds like a guy who plans on pitching for a while to me.


Another 12 years to get to 300.


probably 30 if he played for the cubs

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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:24 am 
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He averages 15 wins a year and has 161 right now for his career.
At that pace, he'd need nine more years.
Pitching until he is 41 is not impossible.

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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:24 am 
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immessedup17 wrote:
cpguy wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
Why would the Cubs sign a veteran pitcher to a lot of money over 3 years...when the Cubs cannot possibly be a true contender in the next 2 seasons?

Let us just piss money away.

cpguy, this is why you are the third worst Cubs poster on the board, behind 312 and whistler. You need to THINK.

Assuming Shark and Cashner go into the rotation, they'll need a veteran leader to show them the ropes besides Dempster and Garza. Plus that might actually be a pretty damn good rotation and they need a lefty.

...

So we can win 78 games in 2012 instead of 72?

And spend $24M over 2012 and 2013 that would be better used in 2014 when we can, you know, actually finish better than .500?

And you forget Wells in your little scenario.

Wells hasn't proven he can do the job. He'd be a good long man/swing starter.

I think Garza, Buehrle, Dempster, Shark and Cashner may be pretty damn decent.


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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:26 am 
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Jamie Moyer, he is not.


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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:45 am 
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immessedup17 wrote:
cpguy wrote:
Wells hasn't proven he can do the job. He'd be a good long man/swing starter.

I think Garza, Buehrle, Dempster, Shark and Cashner may be pretty damn decent.


Shark and Cashner haven't proven anything either. Shark has only succeeded as a set-up man, and Cashner has pitched how many major league innings? How many starts? Be realistic.

Wells had an awful beginning of 2011 between his injury and slow comeback, but he pitched very well to close out the season. That is a huge positive.

Valid points and that's why Wells would be a swing guy in case either Shark or Cashner can't hack it in the rotation. Shark and Cashner however have some damn good stuff if they can master it (Shark) and stay healthy (Cashner). Given 2012 is a developmental year, signing Buehrle gives them a veteran presence to solidy a potentially decent to strong staff and maybe by 2013 or 2014 when more bad money is off the books, they can contend.


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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:49 am 
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No....the team has had enough of the high priced free agent signings for a little while. If you look at Buehrle's record over the past 4 years, he's not much over .500 in that span. Sure, his record against NL clubs is great, but you don't sign a guy that has been on the decline (up till this last season, where a 6 man rotation helped him stay fresher) the past several years. I see him getting just 10-12 million a season from the Cardinals on a 3 year deal. By the time the Cubs are truely ready to contend, Buehrle will no longer be a guy you would want in a rotation anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am 
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immessedup17 wrote:
We have a veteran presence...2 of them in the rotation.

And Wells has done nothing to not deserve to be a lock for the rotation next season - unless the Cubs somehow trade for CC, Halladay, and Lincecum.

Is Wells your brother in law? The guy's ERA was 4.99 and his stuff is not great at all. What are his plus pitches or what makes the guy more than a mop up man??


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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:53 am 
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SteveSarley wrote:
He averages 15 wins a year and has 161 right now for his career.
At that pace, he'd need nine more years.
Pitching until he is 41 is not impossible.


When is the last time he won 15? Right now he averages 13 per year, which means it would take him about 11 years if there isn't any drop off in production, which there has been and he has already stated he didn't want to stick around into his 40s.

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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:02 am 
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immessedup17 wrote:
cpguy wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
We have a veteran presence...2 of them in the rotation.

And Wells has done nothing to not deserve to be a lock for the rotation next season - unless the Cubs somehow trade for CC, Halladay, and Lincecum.

Is Wells your brother in law? The guy's ERA was 4.99 and his stuff is not great at all. What are his plus pitches or what makes the guy more than a mop up man??

He was battling injuries - let us look at a more fair split if you will.

He had a 3.92 ERA over the last 2 months of the season.

He has an excellent change-up to complement the fastball, and he performs best when his slider is working...which it was at the end of 2011. He doesn't do well when he has control issues...his stuff is usually NOT the problem. His game is dependent on keeping hitters off balance. Not every pitcher needs to blow pitches by you.

If "stuff" was the only factor involved in being a good pitcher, Carlos Marmol would be one of the top pitchers in baseball.


He sucks. #5 at best.


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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:04 am 
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immessedup17 wrote:
cpguy wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
We have a veteran presence...2 of them in the rotation.

And Wells has done nothing to not deserve to be a lock for the rotation next season - unless the Cubs somehow trade for CC, Halladay, and Lincecum.

Is Wells your brother in law? The guy's ERA was 4.99 and his stuff is not great at all. What are his plus pitches or what makes the guy more than a mop up man??

He was battling injuries - let us look at a more fair split if you will.

He had a 3.92 ERA over the last 2 months of the season.

He has an excellent change-up to complement the fastball, and he performs best when his slider is working...which it was at the end of 2011. He doesn't do well when he has control issues...his stuff is usually NOT the problem. His game is dependent on keeping hitters off balance. Not every pitcher needs to blow pitches by you.

If "stuff" was the only factor involved in being a good pitcher, Carlos Marmol would be one of the top pitchers in baseball.

I agree the guy has some value, but not sure he will ever be more than a 5th starter type. I don't see the command and as you said which I agree with, he is one of those keep hitters off balance types that have to have pinpoint control/command to be successful. Cashner and Shark have top of the rotation stuff and deserve a shot which is why they desperately need another proven starter and to me Buehrle is the best free agent likely to be available. CC ain't going nowehere and would command 20M+ plus for 5 years anyway and I can't see Ricketts shelling out that kind of cash.


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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:15 am 
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cpguy wrote:
I agree the guy has some value, but not sure he will ever be more than a 5th starter type. I don't see the command and as you said which I agree with, he is one of those keep hitters off balance types that have to have pinpoint control/command to be successful. Cashner and Shark have top of the rotation stuff and deserve a shot which is why they desperately need another proven starter and to me Buehrle is the best free agent likely to be available. CC ain't going nowehere and would command 20M+ plus for 5 years anyway and I can't see Ricketts shelling out that kind of cash.


CJ Wilson


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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:17 am 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
cpguy wrote:
I agree the guy has some value, but not sure he will ever be more than a 5th starter type. I don't see the command and as you said which I agree with, he is one of those keep hitters off balance types that have to have pinpoint control/command to be successful. Cashner and Shark have top of the rotation stuff and deserve a shot which is why they desperately need another proven starter and to me Buehrle is the best free agent likely to be available. CC ain't going nowehere and would command 20M+ plus for 5 years anyway and I can't see Ricketts shelling out that kind of cash.


CJ Wilson

Not quite as proven but he will definately pull down at least 4 yrs, 48M. More risk but more potential upside.


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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:19 am 
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immessedup17 wrote:
Why would the Cubs sign a veteran pitcher to a lot of money over 3 years...when the Cubs cannot possibly be a true contender in the next 2 seasons?

Let us just piss money away.

cpguy, this is why you are the third worst Cubs poster on the board, behind 312 and whistler. You need to THINK.

cgs and Elmhurst Steve just high fived

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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:30 am 
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immessedup17 wrote:
Phil McCracken wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
Why would the Cubs sign a veteran pitcher to a lot of money over 3 years...when the Cubs cannot possibly be a true contender in the next 2 seasons?

Let us just piss money away.

cpguy, this is why you are the third worst Cubs poster on the board, behind 312 and whistler. You need to THINK.

cgs and Elmhurst Steve just high fived


Oh geez, fourth worst then.

CGS is much worse than cpguy - but Elmhurst Steve is pretty close.

Hey now!

:)


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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:48 pm 
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I would go and get Paul Maholm. He is 29 and would be a solid 3rd or 4th starter. He would command something around 3 yrs and 10-12 mil total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:52 pm 
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Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
I would go and get Paul Maholm. He is 29 and would be a solid 3rd or 4th starter. He would command something around 3 yrs and 10-12 mil total.

That strained left shoulder scares me.


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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:53 pm 
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cpguy wrote:
Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
I would go and get Paul Maholm. He is 29 and would be a solid 3rd or 4th starter. He would command something around 3 yrs and 10-12 mil total.

That strained left shoulder scares me.


Pending a physical of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:55 pm 
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Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
cpguy wrote:
Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
I would go and get Paul Maholm. He is 29 and would be a solid 3rd or 4th starter. He would command something around 3 yrs and 10-12 mil total.

That strained left shoulder scares me.


Pending a physical of course.

It's a possibility but not multi-year. They def. need pitching help badly.


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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:59 pm 
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cpguy wrote:
It's a possibility but not multi-year. They def. need pitching help badly.


2 years with a team only option for 3rd year.

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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:03 pm 
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Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
cpguy wrote:
It's a possibility but not multi-year. They def. need pitching help badly.


2 years with a team only option for 3rd year.

You sound like Hendry - lol! The guy is decent. All depends on money, length of deal and most importantly the health of the shoulder.


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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:28 pm 
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I think the Cubs should make a run at signing Carlos Silva

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 Post subject: Re: Sign Mark Buehrle
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:30 pm 
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Phil McCracken wrote:
I think the Cubs should make a run at signing Carlos Silva

I'd rather have Anderson Silva

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