Im not sure I agree. I think the Red Sox have shown you can update a park without losing its idenity. Thats what the Cubs should shoot for.

I thought I heard a Chicago landmark expert on the Score a couple of weeks ago say that the Wrigley Field scoreboard is protected as part pf the parks landmark status. Anyone else hear this?

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

I still think that the most popular team in a baseball crazy city like Chicago can survive without a "special" stadium. They may have trouble when the team is really bad but is that a bad thing?

The Cubs fan base is massive. Who isn't going to be a fan because the scoreboard isn't using 1930s technology?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I went to Fenway for the first time last year. Wrigleyville could certainly take some lessons

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This is where we disagree. The Wrigley Field fanbase is massive. The Cubs fanbase is simlar to that of any other big market team.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Isn't that good enough? The Mets don't need a "special stadium" in order to make as much more money than the Cubs.

If the Cubs were making Yankees revenue because of Wrigley that would be different but really they don't make as much as you'd think for the most popular team in the second or third biggest baseball market in the country.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

He's where you and I are disconnected on this. You're acting as if the Cubs are simply "the most popular team in Chicago" as if that's just the way it's always been and just the way it always will be. And over the course of your lifetime, that's certainly been the case.

But if you're aware of the history, up until the mid-80s both Chicago teams were equal in popularity. The Sox made the mistake of putting games on UHF and then pay TV and that cost them a generation. But that shit is over. They're back on equal ground as far as television is concerned.

Then every team knocked down their old parks over a relatively short period of time. Of all the old parks Fenway and Wrigley were always considered the two worst until they were the only ones left. That became part of the attraction. The vinatge ballpark is what the Cubs are selling. It won't last forever, but only a fool would knock it down.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Cubs fanbase is bigger than most because of WGN back in the day.

Right, but that advantage is gone. You made the point that the location is what's critical. Maybe that's all it is. But even with the huge advantage of the special antique park you couldn't give tickets away on some days last season.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

I think that the battle for new fans is mostly over. You'll get the generic crossover of kids who switch sides but those will mostly balance out. Television created a bunch of new fans that didn't have to go to games in order to see them. The fact that the Cubs were constantly on television built them up and established them. That doesn't really matter now because as you said, they are both on a ton.

Wrigley attracts non-Cubs fans better than the Cell for obvious reasons. However, the actual fans aren't going to change because the stadium is different especially if it's done slowly. It's the same reason that no one gave up on the Bears because the stadium isn't historic any more and how the "magic" of Chicago Stadium was replaced by the corporate centered United Center.

If a Cubs fan gets mad about the stadium being electronic are they really going to go become a White Sox fan where the stadium is electronic and shoots fireworks and blasts music all the time?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Just goes to show you that no one really gives a shit about the park, they care more about the team. Otherwise, the seats would have still been filled. Nobody wants to pay to watch shit. Especially those ticket prices. If the Cubs were a consistent winner, the place would always be packed - regardless of the stadium.

That might be an irreversible mistake.

That generation has kids. I dont think they can make that gap up.

I don't think they're going to start running to the South side. I just think you won't have the same demand to go to the games the way you do now. You know, Uncle Charlie from Anchorage who isn't really a baseball fan but he comes to visit and wants to go to a game at Wrigley. Those types of "fans" add up to sellouts and one of the top attendances in MLB. It isn't a problem when the team is winning. A winning team will draw regardless.




Maybe, but I don't really think so. In a way the Cubs were a victim of their own success. The heavy demand for Cub tickets over the past twenty years or so priced a lot of people (families) out of the park. Some of those people- ones that aren't hardcore- undoubtedly came over to Sox Park on a Monday and maybe those kids ran on the playground in leftfield and now some of them are Sox fans. It's the same thing that allowed the creation and success of so many minor league teams so close to an urban center.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

No. This is a silly thought. The Cubs fan base IS massive. They also happen to like Wrigley Field.
Only the Yankees have more fans than the Cubs.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

What exactly are you basing that on?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

My own completely biased baseball fan study.

_________________
CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

I knew it must have been something like that since it wasn't based on average home and/or road attendance or television ratings.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don