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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:44 pm 
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What are the chances of getting a James Harden away from OKC? Are he, Westbrook and Durant all still on their rookie contracts?


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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:45 pm 
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Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:
What are the chances of getting a James Harden away from OKC? Are he, Westbrook and Durant all still on their rookie contracts?

You would be more likely to pry away Thabo

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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:50 pm 
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Phil McCracken wrote:
Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:
What are the chances of getting a James Harden away from OKC? Are he, Westbrook and Durant all still on their rookie contracts?

You would be more likely to pry away Thabo

I'm guessing that's because you're less likely to want Thabo.

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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:59 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Phil McCracken wrote:
Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:
What are the chances of getting a James Harden away from OKC? Are he, Westbrook and Durant all still on their rookie contracts?

You would be more likely to pry away Thabo

I'm guessing that's because you're less likely to want Thabo.

You don't want a 2 guard that can't shoot 3's or dribble?

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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:33 pm 
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Meh, just let him walk...

Quote:
Source: Bulls eyeing Derrick Rose deal

CHICAGO -- The Chicago Bulls' "top priority" during Wednesday morning's initial contact period between teams and agents will be to set up the framework of Derrick Rose's contract extension, according to a league source.

Rose, whose rookie contract is up after this season, became the youngest MVP in NBA history last season while leading the Bulls to a regular-season-best 62 wins. He is expected to receive a max extension when the time comes, although no formal offers can be made or signed until Dec. 9, according to an NBA memo issued to all teams Tuesday night.

No matter when he officially signs, Rose is due for a mammoth raise from his rookie contract, based upon a new wrinkle to the collective bargaining agreement, which is expected to be ratified at some point in the next few days.

"The Derrick Rose Rule," as it's being called around the league, rewards players of Rose's caliber by enabling a player finishing his rookie contract to make 30 percent of a team's salary cap -- up from 25 percent -- if he's been voted an All-Star starter twice, made two All-NBA teams or won an MVP award.

"It's unbelievable," Rose recently told CSNChicago.com. "But the rule, I guess, it fits me for what I've achieved at a young age and hopefully there will be a couple more people like me."

Once the new CBA is ratified, it's likely Rose will sign a five-year extension for upwards of $100 million.

Once the Bulls have the framework of Rose's new deal in place, their next order of business will be to see if they can upgrade at shooting guard. They will look at all options and aren't expected to make a decision on Keith Bogans' contract option for at least a few days.

Bogans started all 82 games a year ago, averaging four points and two rebounds per game.

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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:36 pm 
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Durant's deal was what, 6 years/$85 million? That's the precedent. Done.

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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:54 pm 
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Douchebag wrote:
Meh, just let him walk...

Quote:
Source: Bulls eyeing Derrick Rose deal

CHICAGO -- The Chicago Bulls' "top priority" during Wednesday morning's initial contact period between teams and agents will be to set up the framework of Derrick Rose's contract extension, according to a league source.

Rose, whose rookie contract is up after this season, became the youngest MVP in NBA history last season while leading the Bulls to a regular-season-best 62 wins. He is expected to receive a max extension when the time comes, although no formal offers can be made or signed until Dec. 9, according to an NBA memo issued to all teams Tuesday night.

No matter when he officially signs, Rose is due for a mammoth raise from his rookie contract, based upon a new wrinkle to the collective bargaining agreement, which is expected to be ratified at some point in the next few days.

"The Derrick Rose Rule," as it's being called around the league, rewards players of Rose's caliber by enabling a player finishing his rookie contract to make 30 percent of a team's salary cap -- up from 25 percent -- if he's been voted an All-Star starter twice, made two All-NBA teams or won an MVP award.

"It's unbelievable," Rose recently told CSNChicago.com. "But the rule, I guess, it fits me for what I've achieved at a young age and hopefully there will be a couple more people like me."

Once the new CBA is ratified, it's likely Rose will sign a five-year extension for upwards of $100 million.

Once the Bulls have the framework of Rose's new deal in place, their next order of business will be to see if they can upgrade at shooting guard. They will look at all options and aren't expected to make a decision on Keith Bogans' contract option for at least a few days.

Bogans started all 82 games a year ago, averaging four points and two rebounds per game.


Agreed. The Derrick Rose rule is going to take up a lot of cap space. Let's see if he's a real team player and leaves some money on the table like Tim Duncan has done.

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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:56 pm 
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I wasn't really being serious. The guy is the franchise for the next decade. He's going to get paid. Now's not the time to get the hometown discount. That could maybe come on the next contract, but this is Rose's first big-money deal.

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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:57 pm 
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Douchebag wrote:
I wasn't really being serious. The guy is the franchise for the next decade. He's going to get paid. Now's not the time to get the hometown discount. That could maybe come on the next contract, but this is Rose's first big-money deal.


I thought that was clear. Neither was I.

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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:58 pm 
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Did Hova just say to let D Rose walk? :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:58 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Did Hova just say to let D Rose walk? :shock:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:59 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Did Hova just say to let D Rose walk? :shock:


:lol: It's good to see what you guys really think about me.

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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
In the grand SCEME (not scope, Dumbass) pf things

Awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:01 pm 
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HOVA wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Did Hova just say to let D Rose walk? :shock:


:lol: It's good to see what you guys really think about me.


Your bitterness over the whole Beasley thing not working out is getting out of control :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:03 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
HOVA wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Did Hova just say to let D Rose walk? :shock:


:lol: It's good to see what you guys really think about me.


Your bitterness over the whole Beasley thing not working out is getting out of control :wink:


Isn't he available after this season?

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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:09 pm 
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HOVA wrote:
RFDC wrote:

Your bitterness over the whole Beasley thing not working out is getting out of control :wink:


Isn't he available after this season?

Nope. Under contract with the Betty Ford Center for three more years at max money.

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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:11 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
HOVA wrote:
RFDC wrote:

Your bitterness over the whole Beasley thing not working out is getting out of control :wink:


Isn't he available after this season?

Nope. Under contract with the Betty Ford Center for three more years at max money.


:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:53 pm 
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Nick Young? No, thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:03 pm 
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If the Bulls were to add a decent shooting guard they would probably be in the mix again. If Rose was able to play better against the Heat the Bulls probably win the series.

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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:07 pm 
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Mini Ditka wrote:
If Rose was able to play better against the Heat the Bulls probably win the series.

That's true, on Rose's bad ankle, they were still in almost every game in that series. If anyone else could have knocked down a shot here or there, they could've won.

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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:15 pm 
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If the Bulls would have scored more points than their opponents in a game at least four times, they would have won the series.


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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:50 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
Nick Young? No, thank you.

Why not?

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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:36 pm 
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Uhh...Joe Johnson may be amnestied.

Please and thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:40 pm 
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ChgoSportsFreak wrote:
Uhh...Joe Johnson may be amnestied.

Please and thank you!

There's no chance Atlanta eats $100+ Million. I know they can spread it out over a long period of time, but there's just no way any team would eat that money.

Maybe they amnesty him in a few years down the line, but there's no way financially they could do that now. Teams can save the amnesty for anytime during the 10 year CBA.

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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:46 pm 
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I think you have to sign D Rose.


Agreed, KS. I also am anti-cancer.


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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:55 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
Nick Young? No, thank you.

Why not?


Because he sucks -- likes to shoot, but not efficiently. Doesn't play defense, pass, or rebound. He's a quick Kyle Korver.


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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:54 pm 
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Douchebag wrote:
ChgoSportsFreak wrote:
Uhh...Joe Johnson may be amnestied.

Please and thank you!

There's no chance Atlanta eats $100+ Million. I know they can spread it out over a long period of time, but there's just no way any team would eat that money.

Maybe they amnesty him in a few years down the line, but there's no way financially they could do that now. Teams can save the amnesty for anytime during the 10 year CBA.


I have to do more research on the Amnesty Clause of the CBA. I've read it two ways:

1. Once the player has been declared amnestied he is an unrestricted free agent, the current team pays the remainder of the contract and the player is free to sign with any other team for whatever amount.

2. Once the player has been declared amnestied he is put in a 'waiver pool' with the teams that are under the cap and then the pool of teams under the cap bid on the percentage they will pay of the contract. Then the team amnesting only pays the rest of what the new team is not picking up.

Either of these correct? Parts of both?


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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:11 pm 
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If the Heat were to "amnesty" Lebron, could they then re-sign him for the league minimum, thus clearing tons of cap room?


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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:16 am 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
If the Heat were to "amnesty" Lebron, could they then re-sign him for the league minimum, thus clearing tons of cap room?


That's what I didn't know and what makes me think there has to be more to it that the number 1 option above. In my research this is what I found to be the easiest to understand:

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/11/28/revised-amnesty-clause-raises-questions/

Quote:
We’ve all been obsessing for months over the new amnesty rule, which will allow each team to cut one player currently under contract and have that player’s salary (which the team must still pay) vanish from its salary-cap number. Teams will be able to use amnesty once over the course of the new collective bargaining agreement.

The rule comes loaded with moral issues: Why should teams that signed or acquired overpaid, non-productive players be rewarded with a get-out-of-jail free card, especially since the new, harsh luxury-tax penalties won’t come into effect until the 2013-14 season, giving teams two years to prepare? And wouldn’t the rule be unfair to teams that have kept their cap sheets clean for this crop of free agents? They might face more competition as rivals shed salary, and players who end up as amnesty cuts might view such teams as unappealing destinations, since such players could sign minimum-level deals with glamorous contenders.

The league has tried to fix that last issue by creating a waiver process for players cut via amnesty, according to the details of the league’s proposal. The net result is that teams under the cap will have the first shot at any amnesty victims, preventing those players from flocking to contenders over the cap (the Lakers, Mavericks, Celtics, Spurs, Magic, Bulls and even the Grizzlies). Here’s a slightly simplified version of how it will work:

• Say the Trail Blazers use their amnesty provision on Brandon Roy, who is set to make $15 million this season and $69 million over the four years left on his contract. Releasing Roy would not take the Blazers under the cap — a reason they might wait — but it would take them under the dollar-for-dollar luxury-tax line.

• When we first contemplated amnesty, we thought Roy would then be a free agent, able to sign with any team. Fans of contending teams salivated over picking up quality veterans on minimum salaries — cheap contracts they’d be willing to take, since their old team would still be paying their full salary.

But this is not what will happen. Instead, Roy would be placed into a hybrid waiver market open only to teams under the salary cap. Those teams would then submit bids detailing how much of Roy’s $15 million salary they’d like to pay. The highest bidder gets him; Roy has no choice in the matter. The winning team will pay only the money it offered in its bid, with Portland paying the rest. So, if the Hornets, desperate for a shooting guard and able to get under the cap if they lose David West, bid $4 million for Roy and win, the Blazers would be on the hook for the remaining $11 million.

As you can see, the system prevents players from joining contenders on the cheap and from earning two salaries at once — at least, if someone under the cap claims them.

The list of teams under the cap includes a bunch of bad teams with little use for tainted veteran talent (the Raptors, Wizards, Kings and Bobcats); one team with massive cap room and an interesting young nucleus (the Pacers); one crazy revenue-generator with an even better young nucleus (the Clippers); one club angling for bigger things (the Nets); and a few interesting wild cards that could go in a variety of directions (the Rockets, Pistons, Warriors and Nuggets). Would those teams want one of the possible amnesty candidates — Roy, Travis Outlaw, Baron Davis, Gilbert Arenas, Rashard Lewis, Brendan Haywood, DeSagana Diop, Marvin Williams and others?

Your first instinct is to say “no” — that a rebuilding team or an up-and-coming bunch does not need to spend money on players like these. But some are good players, which is easy to forget. Take Lewis, a guy the Wizards may not actually cut via amnesty, given that they have to stay above the new, higher minimum-salary floor: Lewis’ contract has become a punch line, but he is a useful player who improved defensively playing under Stan Van Gundy. Lewis is a “stretch” power forward with legitimate three-point range and an efficient post game he can use against smaller defenders.

Or what about Davis, a possible backup point guard for the Warriors and Clippers as they try to push for a bottom-tier Western Conference playoff spot? Or even Outlaw, a younger stretch power forward who can swing to small forward and has to play better than he did last season?

Depending on future plans, you could see a team under the cap grabbing one of these players on the cheap to help now and serve as a trade chip later.

But here are two major questions the league, per several sources, hasn’t answered yet:

1. Would the team acquiring such a player have to sign him to a contract that runs for the same length as his old one? In other words: Could you acquire Roy via waiver for one season, or would you have to sign him to a four-year deal that parallels his Portland contract? Lewis has two years (including this one) left on his deal. Arenas has three. This is an important question.

2. Would these contracts count as “new” for the purposes of the “stretch” exception, which will allow teams to waive players they sign once the league resumes business and “stretch” the cap hit out into the future? The idea behind the “stretch” rule is to make it easier for teams to part with non-performing players, so that a team could waive a guy with two years left on his deal and stretch the cap hit over five seasons, softening the immediate blow.

But are these waiver/amnesty contracts “new”? If a team is “forced” to sign Roy for four years, can it waive him after the first one (if he performs poorly) and stretch the payments out over seven seasons? Or do these deals count as “old,” since they are linked to pre-existing contracts?

It will be hard to make predictions about amnesty until we know all of this stuff, but the general manager quoted in this New York Times story is probably right: I’d be surprised if we saw more than a half-dozen guys change teams this season via amnesty, and the number could be much lower. Teams might choose to wait on amnesty if using the clause won’t provide immediate cap room (as is the case in Portland with Roy and Dallas with Haywood), and especially since the new luxury tax doesn’t kick in for two seasons. It’s easy to say Dallas should just slice away Haywood’s bloated deal, but why not keep him for now as Tyson Chandler’s backup and potential injury insurance? And as I’ve noted before, some teams just don’t have a quality amnesty candidate, and others (such as the Hawks) may not be in a place financially to pay someone tens of millions for nothing.

There’s a good chance amnesty won’t provide the immediate excitement fans have been anticipating, but it will still be fascinating to watch this process play out.


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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:00 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Roster Moves
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:04 am 
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Just saw an update that the Bulls are "aggresively pursuing Dwight Howard."


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