I think Lovie is middle of the road. Yes he has a good record and the players seem to respect the hell out of him, but I think the Bears could do a lot better. They could do worse too, but for a Charter Franchise for the NFL, they could and should do a lot better.

Like TM said and I said yesterday, its time for a change. There needs to be an entirely new set of voices at Halas Hall. The only guys I would keep around would be Tice and Toub, and maybe Marinelli but not necessarily as DCoord.

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This has always been my biggest problem with Lovie. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Bears drafts began to really suck when they started picking "Lovie system guys". Lovie now permeates all things Bear.

Pre-Lovie system, Angelo drafted guys like Tillman, Briggs, Alex Brown, even longtime pros like Grossman, Colombo. The first Lovie draft, which you could argue was Lovie-influenced but not really all-Lovie was the Harris, Tank, Vasher, Berrian draft which was also pretty good.

Every post-Lovie hired draft since has been God-awful.

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You know me like that.

He is a good coach. Of course he has flaws, but here is my evidence:

-His players play hard for him and never quit. That is not a given in the professional world.
-He has produced solid defenses that focus on speed to the ball, bend don't break, and winning the turnover battle.
-He always wins the special teams battles.

If he had been given a quality QB with anything resembling an NFL offense, the results would be much better during his tenure. Even with what he has been given, he has a 71-57 career record with the Bears. That is enough to be considered good in a league where parity rules.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

That is all true. But on the flip side you can point to at least half a dozen instances in which game decisions/ time management/ personnel desicions have cost the Bears a win, or put the game in jeopardy.

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The bolded is also untrue. They do quit and they are often unprepared.

The italicized is also part of my problem with his coaching style. He depends on them for offensive production where I think of it as a bonus. Too much luck involved and not enough focus on fundamentally sound football.

Midge, a dollar says they hire Ron Turner again.

He has his flaws. I agree with the talent evaluation/draft complaints, which he had a hand in. He is also a poor game manager with the clock, getting the plays in. But you are paid to win games, which he does, meaning he overcomes many of these flaws. We could do better than Lovie, but it is more likely, we'd get worse if he goes. If you told me Cowher was coming, I'd take it. But if we are going to get some upcoming unknown or a retread, I'll take what we have. I just like knowing that every season the Bears are going to be competitive. He has exceeded expectations in every season but the post Super Bowl one (my opinion).

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Spaulding you did not even watch the games this year, so you are hardly one to comment on whether the players play hard for him or not.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I stopped partially because I was busy but partially because they suck. You were going to watch the same thing as in years past. I've seen that, it's like watching a rerun.

Defense always plays hard.

Offense frequently goes into a shell of being bad and thus look like they aren't playing hard when in fact they are just not talented and showing the appropriate lack of confidence.

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You know me like that.

Disagree. I don't see evidence of players quitting. In fact, there are many times when they could have simply laid down and didn't. They ended the 2009 season with 2 wins and had nothing to play for. They started poorly in 2011 with a sub-500 record, and then reeled off a lot of wins. They didn't quit against MN. Again, just my opinion, and I am trying to be objective.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Slice it any way that you want, but the facts remain the same.

You have horrible thoughts on the Bears to begin with and now you cannot even talk semi intelligently about them because you do not even watch the games.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Cowher has become a little overrated.


It took him 14 years and an extremely patient owner to win a Super Bowl

I thought the defense somewhat quit against Seattle this year.

I also stopped watching every game/play after that Tebow fiasco.

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Frank, that would be the best evidence of them quitting in a game. It was the closest we have seen in the Lovie era. We have just seen so much bad coaching in Chicago (all teams) that I wish people would appreciate a guy who is above respectable. I know he is frustrating because he shows no emotion after losses and rarely admits mistakes with the media. I get that. But it does not change the fact that overall he has done a good job. Their defense and special teams scores points like nothing I have ever seen. Again, too bad their offense is downright offensive.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

I give all credit for Special Teams success to 2 people -

Devin Hester
Dave Toub

Probably not in that order. With a minor shoutout to Jerry Angelo for finding other guys like Knox, Manning, Ayanbadejo, and Graham. I give Lovie almost no credit for that area outside of moral support.

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You know me like that.

I don't care about his emotion, or lack thereof. And I don't suspect his players have quit on him more than that one Seattle game, and even that is questionable at best.

My beef with him is his personnel deisicions, and not just the draft. "Lovie guys" were for the most party god awful for the Bears- Terry Shea (who in turn brought Jonathin Quinn), Adam Archuleta, Bob Babich as Dcoord, Orlando Pace, etc etc.

The timeout- red flag- timeout debacle that seemed to be on almost a weekly display up until the middle of last season

Calling a timeout against Seattle in the playoffs to give the Seahawks one more chance at a Hail Mary

The prevent defense against Tebow this year allowing him to get downfield and get a TD

The awful defensive setup against Atlanta who had 19 seconds and no timeouts, but got out of bounds

There's a lot more I'm sure, that is just off the top of my head. Look, I'm not totally an anti Lovie guy like some are. He has good points and bad points. The Bears could do worse, but lets face it they can do better than Lovie Smith. And regardless of how good or bad he is, clearly it is time for a change at Halas Hall. Getting rid of Angelo is a step in the right direction, But forcing a new GM to keep Lovie around for another year does not help the Bears. That is my biggest point. If you fire Angelo, can Lovie as well. Or at least let the new GM decide if Lovie should be his coach or not.

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Two most important for sure. How about kick and punt coverage? These guys get after it. How about good punting? How about great field goal kicking accuracy? They do it all, seriously.

Frank all fair points in your response. Prevent defense is way too common in the NFL.....in the Bears case, that is how they play defense ever part of the game. It's bend don't break and let the other team make mistakes.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Agreed on all points.

But I give that credit to Toub and, to a lesser extent, Angelo grabbing bottom of the roster guys that are better than other team's bottom of the roster guys moreso than anything Lovie is doing.

Unless, you say that the bottom of the Bears roster is better because Angelo was taking bust-out Lovie system guys that were only good for special teams, then I might have to concede that point and give Lovie credit for making bad draft picks that are exceptionally suited for special teams.

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You know me like that.

Let's also include the red shirt years for rookies even in the face of unproductive veterans

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Good spot with Florio just now on the Mac show. He said that Phillips & Lovie should have also been fired because the Bear needs a completely fresh start. He is 100% correct.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

Wasn't Lovie the guy who HAD to have Archuletta and that's on Angelo (I mean as GM he should have known better), and I thought Lovie was behind mannomannomammula too. Granted Angelo should have told him no but that was a Lovie call right? How can a good coach make so many in game mistakes and be so poor at evaluating talent?

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

that is why lovie needed to be canned with jerry..lovie had a lot of say in drafting players and free agency signings.it matters little..next year when the bears go 7-9 lovie is gone and hopefully phillips.

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The Bears have 3 pro bowlers on defense along with Peppers,yet the Bears defense was middle of the pack in most statistical categories.

The question that has not been asked but maybe needs to be is this....is the Bear defense playing up to it's potential? I don't believe Lovie (and by extension his staff) are as good as they have been perceived in terms of coaching defense. Yet Bears management hold Lovie in almost referential terms.

And please I don't want to hear this, well the offense was so bad the defense was due to just break down. The defense was average when the Bears were 7-3.

I see some here that don't want to give Lovie credit for what his coordinators successfully do and others that want to place all the blame on what Lovie's coordinators failed at. You can't have it both ways. Angelo had the final decision on all personnel decisions. It was clear that he even blindsided Lovie several times with his decisions. Only control Lovie got was who stayed on the roster. That's why Angelo was fired. I do agree they are tying the new GM hands but it's not the same as Jauron. Lovie is one of the top 10 coaches in the league. Not many of them are available.

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I'd love to see Lovie (or one of his choices) named as GM for low end $$ for the next two years (same as his coaching K term)

If he loses, the meatballs get their firing wish in a year for low end $ the McCaskeys can stomach.

If he wins, the meatballs' heads explode.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

What have they done successfully, really? We'll make the playoffs occasionally maybe. He has no clue on offense and depends on his defense and st play. He is the definition of mediocre.

You drinking tonight?

Sounds perfect from a Lake Forest perspective. They spend no $ on scouting, only spend $$ on free agents occaisionally and are the front office definition of mediocre.....until the Halas heirs' get their profit sharing checks.

He's still verging on "Best Bears coach in my lifetime" material.

Seriously.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Yeah, but I still stand behind those remarks.....poor little Bear fan

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Going into every season regardless of how bad the roster is you know the Bears will have a chance to make the playoffs. Very few coaches have won with less talent. Lovie maximizes the talent on his roster.

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