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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:29 pm 
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Now for Soriano.


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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:31 pm 
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Good for Z and the Cubs to get a change of scenery. But my god $15-18mil to have a guy pitch for another team? Mercy :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:32 pm 
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If they want to impress the fans more, they need to dump Soriano. They can either trade him or just release him, but it needs to happen. Right now, this team may be the worst in baseball.

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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:36 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Good for Z and the Cubs to get a change of scenery. But my god $15-18mil to have a guy pitch for another team? Mercy :lol:


A extremely stupid move. This same deal would have been there at the end of spring training.

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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:49 pm 
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I have no problem with the trade. They got a decent 4th-5th starter and Z had zero trade value plus his stuff is very mediocre now. The money was a sunk cost anyway. Good riddance.

Time to get Soriano out of town now. They should be able to save at least 3M per year on that contract if not closer to 5M. He still can hit as a DH and does have a good rep as a good teammate, unlike Z.


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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:50 pm 
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HOVA wrote:
This is a great deal for the Marlins. The Cubs would have been better off releasing him. They got absolutely nothing for him. I expect Z to have a monster year. He's looking to get paid again and I think Ozzie will keep him focused. I expect some Cubs fans to question why Theo didn't get more for Z sometime in May or June. If you're going to dump salary you do it with a guy that has more years and money on the books. This is the Hendry formula. Trade a guy when his value couldn't be lower.


I agree. I don't understand the Z hate. Just discipline him when he needs to be disciplined, and get over it. Man-up and be a manager. What a bunch of babies; I'm surprised at this move by Theo.

The final straw seems to have been his comments last year, that the Cubs were playing like a Triple A team, that the Chicago Cubs should be better than that, and that they should have an understanding of how to correctly pitch to Ryan Theriot. Well guess what, he was 100% right about all of it. I'm sorry the delicate personalities in the front office and on the coaching staff can't handle the truth.

What I'd heard several times in regards to Guillen wanting him in Miami, is that it's a perfect fit because Ozzie knows how to handle personalities like that. Ok, then, hey, maybe the Cubs should have gotten HIM to be the manager then??? Zambrano is hardly the only immature ego-driven guy in sports. Give me a break. Maybe the Cubs shouldn't have a manager that can only handle a roster of 25 docile and polite gentlemen.

If Volstad was a free agent, would he be worth the $16 million the Cubs are essentially paying him? If no, then, why do this?


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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:52 pm 
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the most delicate personality *was* Z. the guy is a total headcase. i agree, good riddance. he'll do much better when there isn't more than a whisper going on in the florida fanbase or media.


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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:56 pm 
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24_Guy wrote:
HOVA wrote:
This is a great deal for the Marlins. The Cubs would have been better off releasing him. They got absolutely nothing for him. I expect Z to have a monster year. He's looking to get paid again and I think Ozzie will keep him focused. I expect some Cubs fans to question why Theo didn't get more for Z sometime in May or June. If you're going to dump salary you do it with a guy that has more years and money on the books. This is the Hendry formula. Trade a guy when his value couldn't be lower.


I agree. I don't understand the Z hate. Just discipline him when he needs to be disciplined, and get over it. Man-up and be a manager. What a bunch of babies; I'm surprised at this move by Theo.

The final straw seems to have been his comments last year, that the Cubs were playing like a Triple A team, that the Chicago Cubs should be better than that, and that they should have an understanding of how to correctly pitch to Ryan Theriot. Well guess what, he was 100% right about all of it. I'm sorry the delicate personalities in the front office and on the coaching staff can't handle the truth.

What I'd heard several times in regards to Guillen wanting him in Miami, is that it's a perfect fit because Ozzie knows how to handle personalities like that. Ok, then, hey, maybe the Cubs should have gotten HIM to be the manager then??? Zambrano is hardly the only immature ego-driven guy in sports. Give me a break. Maybe the Cubs shouldn't have a manager that can only handle a roster of 25 docile and polite gentlemen.

If Volstad was a free agent, would he be worth the $16 million the Cubs are essentially paying him? If no, then, why do this?

9-7 4.82 and a WHIP of 1.44, maybe he should've shut the fuck up and learned to pitch to Ryan Theriot himself.

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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:58 pm 
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HOVA wrote:
This is a great deal for the Marlins. The Cubs would have been better off releasing him. They got absolutely nothing for him. I expect Z to have a monster year. He's looking to get paid again and I think Ozzie will keep him focused. I expect some Cubs fans to question why Theo didn't get more for Z sometime in May or June. If you're going to dump salary you do it with a guy that has more years and money on the books. This is the Hendry formula. Trade a guy when his value couldn't be lower.

How is releasing him - paying the full $19 million and getting no one - better than paying only $15 million and getting a major league player?

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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:00 pm 
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Damn the Cubs are idiots, why won't they trade Z for a bag of balls even if they have to eat his salary!

That's all you could get for Z and you got to pay most of his salary!?!?! Damn the Cubs are idiots!

Amazing.

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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:00 pm 
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24_Guy wrote:
HOVA wrote:
This is a great deal for the Marlins. The Cubs would have been better off releasing him. They got absolutely nothing for him. I expect Z to have a monster year. He's looking to get paid again and I think Ozzie will keep him focused. I expect some Cubs fans to question why Theo didn't get more for Z sometime in May or June. If you're going to dump salary you do it with a guy that has more years and money on the books. This is the Hendry formula. Trade a guy when his value couldn't be lower.


I agree. I don't understand the Z hate. Just discipline him when he needs to be disciplined, and get over it. Man-up and be a manager. What a bunch of babies; I'm surprised at this move by Theo.

The final straw seems to have been his comments last year, that the Cubs were playing like a Triple A team, that the Chicago Cubs should be better than that, and that they should have an understanding of how to correctly pitch to Ryan Theriot. Well guess what, he was 100% right about all of it. I'm sorry the delicate personalities in the front office and on the coaching staff can't handle the truth.

What I'd heard several times in regards to Guillen wanting him in Miami, is that it's a perfect fit because Ozzie knows how to handle personalities like that. Ok, then, hey, maybe the Cubs should have gotten HIM to be the manager then??? Zambrano is hardly the only immature ego-driven guy in sports. Give me a break. Maybe the Cubs shouldn't have a manager that can only handle a roster of 25 docile and polite gentlemen.

If Volstad was a free agent, would he be worth the $16 million the Cubs are essentially paying him? If no, then, why do this?


Couldn't agree more. Most fans tend not to think rationally when it comes to players. This isn't a deal the Cubs couldn't have made at the end of spring. Everyone knows Ozzie has wanted Z for a long time. The Cubs should have be able to get more or at the very least get a decent prospect.

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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:01 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Damn the Cubs are idiots, why won't they trade Z for a bag of balls even if they have to eat his salary!

That's all you could get for Z and you got to pay most of his salary!?!?! Damn the Cubs are idiots!

Amazing.


Save it. You've never heard me say anything like that.

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Awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:02 pm 
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SteveSarley wrote:
HOVA wrote:
This is a great deal for the Marlins. The Cubs would have been better off releasing him. They got absolutely nothing for him. I expect Z to have a monster year. He's looking to get paid again and I think Ozzie will keep him focused. I expect some Cubs fans to question why Theo didn't get more for Z sometime in May or June. If you're going to dump salary you do it with a guy that has more years and money on the books. This is the Hendry formula. Trade a guy when his value couldn't be lower.

How is releasing him - paying the full $19 million and getting no one - better than paying only $15 million and getting a major league player?


Because now they take back a bum that has no upside. This bum will have a roster spot that would have been given to someone else.

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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
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Awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:04 pm 
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SteveSarley wrote:
HOVA wrote:
This is a great deal for the Marlins. The Cubs would have been better off releasing him. They got absolutely nothing for him. I expect Z to have a monster year. He's looking to get paid again and I think Ozzie will keep him focused. I expect some Cubs fans to question why Theo didn't get more for Z sometime in May or June. If you're going to dump salary you do it with a guy that has more years and money on the books. This is the Hendry formula. Trade a guy when his value couldn't be lower.

How is releasing him - paying the full $19 million and getting no one - better than paying only $15 million and getting a major league player?


Extremely foolish comment on HOVA's part

1. The money and prospects in the trade are all secondary to.
2. He is a fucking nut and they COULD NOT have him as part of this team.

The guy had to be gone, the fact Theo got anything for him is the good part.

The "Z is in a contract year" is bullshit. He cant throw above 94 anymore and most of his pitches are in the high 80's.

The Cubs have known this for 2 years, thus the trade to the Yankees rumors 2 years ago.

They have been monitoring his arm slot for years and know he has lost a ton of velocity.

They got a 6'8" former first rounder and it really looks like a terrible deal.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:05 pm 
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HOVA wrote:
SteveSarley wrote:
HOVA wrote:
This is a great deal for the Marlins. The Cubs would have been better off releasing him. They got absolutely nothing for him. I expect Z to have a monster year. He's looking to get paid again and I think Ozzie will keep him focused. I expect some Cubs fans to question why Theo didn't get more for Z sometime in May or June. If you're going to dump salary you do it with a guy that has more years and money on the books. This is the Hendry formula. Trade a guy when his value couldn't be lower.

How is releasing him - paying the full $19 million and getting no one - better than paying only $15 million and getting a major league player?


Because now they take back a bum that has no upside. This bum will have a roster spot that would have been given to someone else.



Same shit happened to the Cubs when they got rid of Milton Bradley. The had to take Carlos Silva who actually pitched really well. I think if Volstad doesn't work out fairly quickly the Cubs won't wait around though.

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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:06 pm 
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Fangraphs says

"All told, the Cubs and Marlins swapped fifth starters. Zambrano just hasn’t been all that good — or consistent –over the past couple of seasons, and caused huge headaches for his coaching staff and the Cubs’ front office. Volstad may offer little upside, but he’s been nearly as good as Zambrano without the drama. At the very least, Theo spends less money on Tylenol this season. At best, Theo also gets the better pitcher."

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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:07 pm 
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Z was hated by his team mates, much like Sammy was. Bad team mates who are a cancer in the locker room should be shown the door. I cant wait for Z & Ozzie to end up in a brawl on the mound during a game.

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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:17 pm 
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Chris_in_joliet wrote:


Same shit happened to the Cubs when they got rid of Milton Bradley. The had to take Carlos Silva who actually pitched really well. I think if Volstad doesn't work out fairly quickly the Cubs won't wait around though.


As a fan I hope he works out but this feels like a Hendry move to me. I really hope that I'm wrong about this.

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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:20 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
Now for Soriano.


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Three AL teams interested in Soriano. Orioles need a DH and Buck Shoewalter had Soriano in Texas

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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:22 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
Now for Soriano.


@georgeofman George ofman
Three AL teams interested in Soriano. Orioles need a DH and Buck Shoewalter had Soriano in Texas


Has the Governor been right before? I hope he is this time. I loved Z but had no use for Soriano. He's a good guy but he's 45 and a waste of money.

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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:23 pm 
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My guys are telling me that the Cubs are in the process of making a deal w/ the Cincinnati Reds. The Cubs'll send the Reds Soriano for a box of those flavored toothpicks. The Cubs will also pay 80% of Soriano's contract, plus the shipping and handling for the toothpicks.


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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:30 pm 
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HOVA wrote:
Has the Governor been right before? I hope he is this time. I loved Z but had no use for Soriano. He's a good guy but he's 45 and a waste of money.


I think you meant Shorty George. The Governor is Dave Kerner.


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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:34 pm 
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Peoria Matt wrote:
HOVA wrote:
Has the Governor been right before? I hope he is this time. I loved Z but had no use for Soriano. He's a good guy but he's 45 and a waste of money.


I think you meant Shorty George. The Governor is Dave Kerner.


Wasn't he the mayor or something?

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spanky wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
In the grand SCEME (not scope, Dumbass) pf things

Awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:46 pm 
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bigfan wrote:
Fangraphs says

"All told, the Cubs and Marlins swapped fifth starters

Except that one of those fifth starters is getting paid $18 million. When is that final season ticket check due?

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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:53 pm 
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HOVA wrote:
SteveSarley wrote:
HOVA wrote:
This is a great deal for the Marlins. The Cubs would have been better off releasing him. They got absolutely nothing for him. I expect Z to have a monster year. He's looking to get paid again and I think Ozzie will keep him focused. I expect some Cubs fans to question why Theo didn't get more for Z sometime in May or June. If you're going to dump salary you do it with a guy that has more years and money on the books. This is the Hendry formula. Trade a guy when his value couldn't be lower.

How is releasing him - paying the full $19 million and getting no one - better than paying only $15 million and getting a major league player?


Because now they take back a bum that has no upside. This bum will have a roster spot that would have been given to someone else.


What is wrong with you lately?


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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:55 pm 
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I do think Ozzies heart outdid his brain on this one.

Z might withhold his antics because of Ozzie, but Ozzie might need to pull him from the starter or even cut him at some point.

When he was decent this past 2 years he was "crafty", none of it was from the alleged power pitching some think he will find again in a contract year.

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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:56 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
bigfan wrote:
Fangraphs says

"All told, the Cubs and Marlins swapped fifth starters

Except that one of those fifth starters is getting paid $18 million. When is that final season ticket check due?


If only they could have landed Jason Frasor for Z.


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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:57 pm 
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Colonel Angus wrote:
My guys are telling me that the Cubs are in the process of making a deal w/ the Cincinnati Reds. The Cubs'll send the Reds Soriano for a box of those flavored toothpicks. The Cubs will also pay 80% of Soriano's contract, plus the shipping and handling for the toothpicks.

:lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:02 pm 
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Bucky Chris wrote:

What is wrong with you lately?


What's popular isn't always right and what's right isn't always popular.

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spanky wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
In the grand SCEME (not scope, Dumbass) pf things

Awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: BIG Z
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:06 pm 
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HOVA wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:

What is wrong with you lately?


What's popular isn't always right and what's right isn't always popular.


So how you manage to be neither is amazing.

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