Sweet merciful crap.



Go ahead, FavreFan. I believe you were in the middle of saying something funny.

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The Bulls haven't done anything wrong, and they're not going to do anything wrong.

- Well, I don't think "preppy" is a very useful term. I mean, it might be descriptive for someone who's still in school or college, but it's ridiculous to refer to a man in his seventies like Averell Harriman as a preppy. And none of the other terms people use--WASP, PLU, et cetera--are much use either. And that's why I prefer the term "UHB."

- ...what?

- UHB. It's an acronym for "urban haute bourgeoisie."

- Is our language so impoverished that we have to use acronyms of French phrases to make ourselves understood?

- Yes.

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I'm just trying to provide you with some perspective and history that you clearly lack. When the leagues merged the AFL teams were considered second class. The patrician owners of teams like the Giants and Steelers (who reluctantly moved to the new conference) considered the owners of the AFL teams a rabble, a collection of juvenile delinquents (Al Davis), the noveau riche (Billy Sullivan), and, GOD FORBID!- Jooooos (Sonny Werblin, Gene Klein & Sam Schulman). The mere thought of one of these lesser teams actually winning an NFL championship was beyond absurd.

To this day there are fans- like stoneroses- who still view the AFL teams as lesser entities. Now, I'm often amused by stoneroses. If you'll notice, when he starts his Yankee bullshit I generally keep my mouth shut. I'm a White Sox fan. What could I say? My team has won all of three (3) world championships compared with twenty-seven (27) for the Yankees. But although the Giants are a more storied franchise than the upstart Jets, they're hardly what I'd call an elite NFL team. It's probably not a great idea for him to carry his Yankee fan arrogance over to football season. He might run into fans of the Packers or Forty-Niners (49ers).

Finally, pro football prior to 1967 is similar to pro basketball prior to 1980. It wasn't really on anyone's radar.

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Freedom is our Strength.

oooh, four! i was surrounded by giants fans in NY and they all lived up to the stereotype that they HATED australia!

you can always make a good point, however, just by quoting carlin at any time.

Considering the Jets were an AFL team I'm not going to hold it against them that they didn't win NFL championships before they were eligible to win them.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Don't FavreFan another thread please.

I never said the Giants weren't more successful. I said the difference wasn't that much to literally abandon the team you like and go to another one. good dolphin was wondering why Jets fans wouldn't have jumped ship and just become Giants fans. My point was that up until recently, the difference wasn't worthy of a switch. Now, watching the Yankees win every 4 years for your whole life would be.

So, keep on FavreFanning and arguing against a point that I don't disagree with or actually pay attention to the fact that the Giants haven't been dominant enough to cause someone to consider switching sides.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I dont think dolphin was questioning why people dont switch but rather why anyone would pick the Jets or Mets in the first place


Its gotta hurt the old school New Yorker that the Knicks cant get it together

I like to hear NYers description because I cannot imagine the type of people that would leave Bear fandom if a new team popped up.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

How many titles did the Yankees have when the Mets were formed like 20?


What sane New Yorker would say

"Ya know, we have the greatest franchise in all of sports. A ton of success a rich history and a great stadium, but I think I like that new Orange and Blue team in Flushing"

You know, there are probably a lot of BRick's out there.

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2018
#ExtendLafleur
10 More Wins

aren't there people here who feel Chicago could support a 2nd NBA team?

New York is on a much bigger scale than Chicago, so it would be more like how the Bears lost fans when the Rams and Colts moved in. The Jets and Mets and now the Nets get some fans because of the closer proximity and the underdog status in the city.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Yeah, but you have to understand the mentality of a lot of Yankee fans. The Yankees win 101 games and lose the World Series in seven games and they call it a bad season. Now consider a couple other things. There were many National League fans that were left "homeless" when the Giants and Dodgers went west. These were people that grew up hating the Yankees. So the Mets had a built-in fan base right from the start, or at the very least, people who would give them a chance. Then, at the time of expansion. the Yankees were just finishing up their Mantle/Berra run and they would be pretty much a non-factor until the mid/late seventies. Also, the Mets were so bad it quickly became fashionable in an ironic hipster way to pull for them. And when they shocked the world in '69, the Yankees were shoved to the side, if only for a little while.

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Freedom is our Strength.

You're touching on the answer to baseball's problem with competitive balance without an un-American salary cap. They simply need to put more teams in New York and less in Oakland and Tampa. Of course, the New York owners would never allow such a thing.

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Freedom is our Strength.

Good point, JORR

I forgot about the New York Baseball Giant fans and Brooklyn Dodger fans


Off on a natural charge, Bon Voyage Yeah, from the home of the dodgers, Brooklyn squad

That is spot on. One of the most interesting things I've seen here is just how little joy the Yankees fans take in accomplishments that would make the average baseball fan start crying for joy. Making the playoffs is meaningless. Winning a playoff series is meaningless unless they are beating the Red Sox. Even championships are treated kind of like "Here is another one". The last Yankees title was greeted with about as much enthusiasm as the White Sox winning a one game playoff.

It's actually quite interesting. The expectations of the Yankees are so great that the enjoyment factor of rooting for them is equalized. It is awesome that you get to see so many titles, but you also don't really enjoy them nearly as much. As I've said before, I really don't care if the Sox never win a title ever again. Of course I want them to, but I saw it and nothing will ever be better then that. The same with the Bulls and the Hawks. I was a little too young for the Bears.

I think that is the draw of being a Mets fan. You won't win as many titles, but if and when you do you will enjoy it a lot more.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I see what you're saying Rick, but Id still take the Bulls existance over the Mavericks

That's a great point. And it's easy to be a Yankee fan. There's still a whole faction of America that likes to pull for the underdog.

Sports are such a huge part of American life and the teams we root for really do have a lot to do with how we define ourselves- as silly as that may seem. For example, in my lifetime, I see the Boston fan as a hopeless loser, a Sisyphean figure who nearly reaches his goal only to closely miss in heartbreaking fashion. Next year he tries again. But a friend of mine is raising an eleven year old boy out there. This kid is almost like a Yankee fan in that he expects to win. There's a good reason for that. Look at the Boston teams in his short lifetime. I suspect that as an old man he will look back and think he should have appreciated those championships more than he did.

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Freedom is our Strength.

Both teams have existed long enough that people don't choose to root for them as some sort of novelty. Most Mets/Jets fans are second or third generation at this point.

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The Bulls haven't done anything wrong, and they're not going to do anything wrong.

Rick - you're the one who argues against points that weren't made and exaggerates the other person's position to make your's seem more plausible.

The Jets not being around in the first few decades is clearly relevant. The Bears are one of the most storied franchises in the NFL and it has nothing to do with their post-SB success.

And JORR - don't act like you're shedding new light with that post. Everything you just said is common knowledge. Except I don't think Giants fans are worried about 49er fans talking shit(especially these days) because the Giants have more NFL championships than San Francisco.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You are the one arguing here with me that the Giants have been more successful than the Jets even though I never said otherwise. Don't be such a FavreFan.
What is your point? The Giants are a more historic franchise, and had more success than the Jets even in the Super Bowl era. I don't know how else to say it. Just continue to FavreFan the thread by making this a central topic.

In my opinion, the success of the Giants prior to Eli winning 2 Super Bowls was not enough to make a Jets fan jump ship and start rooting for the Giants. It would be like if a Cubs fan jumped ship in 2005 or if a Knicks fan were to jump to the Nets when Dwight Howard delivers the guaranteed title to the Nets.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You said that their past success wasn't much different, and you're still exposing your ignorance by comparing the Giants and the White Sox or the Nets. The Giants have the third most championships in NFL history.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I guess Favrefans are going to FavreFan.

I don't care about those old titles in this context. The Jets didn't exist and couldn't win them. Of course it's great to have, but every single Jets fan in the world knew about those old titles the day they became a Jets fan. Are they going to wake up one day and say "Well, the Giants won titles before I was born, let's become Giants fans!"? Of course not.

The point is that it's not like being a Giants fan was some sort of magical journey filled with title after title. They were good, and better than the Jets, but it's going to take a lot more for me to switch allegiances than that. Just put it in the correct context rather than constantly harping on the point that the Giants have more total championships. For most of the lives of the Jets fans, it was 2 to 1 in the Super Bowl era.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You're ridiculous. You can't just not count titles because you weren't alive for them or the Jets weren't around for them. This is why I laugh at your arguments. You take a ridiculous position and then make up stupid stipulations to make it seem less ridiculous. Sure, it's not the Jets fault just like it's not the Miami Heat's fault that they are a much newer team than some of the older teams but it still means they don't have the history of success that some other teams have.

As for the switching allegiances thing - that's just stupid. You don't switch allegiances. It's pretty much that simple.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Clearly I am shedding new light for some people since there are plenty who believe Joe Namath should be judged on his career interceptions rather than on his real legacy which was putting the Super Bowl on the map and playing a huge role in the development of the game as the biggest single-day sporting event in the world.

It does come across that you appreciate the history of sports more than the average fan of your age.

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Freedom is our Strength.

This is what happens when someone takes something out of context. It's simple. A Jets fan is not going to switch to the Giants because the Giants won NFL championships a long time ago before the Jets existed or were in the AFL. That is not new information. I'm not saying the titles don't exist. I'm saying they don't matter in this discussion.

Keep on FavreFanning though. I've made my point pretty clear here. Feel free to keep on arguing about things that had nothing to do with my statement though.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm saying that is ridiculous and sounds like something IMU would say.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I don't think it's ridiculous to say that no fan is going to change allegiances because of a title won 50 or 60 years ago. You obviously think that someone would or you wouldn't be arguing this.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I never really thought about this until I read this post. Now, I must confess that you are exactly right.

Joe Rod Road has raised an excellent point about orphaned fans who always hated the Glorious New York Yankees. That capably explains Mets fans.

My point regarding the New York Football Giants is not to belittle Jets fans (they do a very excellent job of that themselves). All I am saying, as Good, Dolphin has realized, is asking you to imagine being a fan of a longstanding franchise such as the Bears. All of a sudden, another team is dropped into Chicago. Not just an AFC team, but an AFL team, from an inferior league. What kind of lunatic abandons the Bears and begins rooting for the new team?

When the Titans were formed, the AFL was like the XFL. Wha' happen? Did Queens secede from reality?

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1923-1927-1928-1932-1936-1937-1938-1939
1941-1943-1947-1949-1950-1951-1952-1953
1956-1958-1961-1962-1977-1978-1996-1998
1999-2000-2009
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XXI - XXV - XLII - XLVI

The switching allegiances thing is stupid like I already said and was most likely said in jest by dolphin but you felt the need to argue it because you're Rick. Titles always matter, to say they don't because they were awhile ago makes you sound like a teenager, regardless of context.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul