No, it's not the same at all, IMO.

Paying a LB extra $$ outside of the contract for the sole purpose of rewarding him for injuring a player is way different than a group of players agreeing on their own to some sort of "kangaroo court" type of fine system that ends up paying for a team dinner, going to charity, etc.

On the GB WR deal, where did the money go? I'm assuming Jennings doesn't get extra money from Jones for his drops? It's taken away from Jones, but where does it go?

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Yeah, not a very good post. What I was trying to say was that the organization should be punished because this circumvents the salary cap, but they should not be punished for encouraging injuring the opposition. If you injure someone within the rules, there's nothing to really punish the player with, and if you injure someone with a dirty hit, the league will rule on it and fines or suspensions will be handed out when it happens. Should the player then be punished for his illegal hit again that he has already paid a fine for if the league finds out it was part of a bounty system? I say no.

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the amount of money is chump change..circumventing the salary cap is serious if it is real money..like if kraft pays belichick a couple hundred grand to pay his fine .... not a couple grand..that is walking around money to these guys...you don't think ray lewis wants to knock big ben out of the game?..he does and so does every other player on the ravens defense and vice versa for the steelers and flacco...they don't want to end his career..but want him out of the game..nothing wrong with that.

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I honestly don't know where the money went, but it doesn't matter really. Money still exchanged hands based on the performance (or lack of performance, as it were) of another player.

If the main problem is the finanical aspect of the "awards", then fine. I can understand that. Hell, I can't even accept gifts at work from customers.

But if the argument is that coaches should not be telling players to go out and injure another player? Come on.

As long as it is done within the rules of the game, then I have no problem with it.

This kind of system encourages and rewards dirty plays


I dont know where everyone is getting the ideas these are all clean hits

Maybe it's from the NFL itself. Most weren't flagged. Very few were in fact penalized. Most talking heads & retired jocks were straining to get camera time to cheer Gregg Williams and his old-timey bunch of old school hitters. He sure in the hell was the flavor of the month for quite awhile back after they dismantled Indy, et al..

But, I also know I've seen Warner, Favre & Manning plastered in Saints games in '09 over 50 times each thanks to their broadcasts and rebroadcasts over the NFL Network, ESPN, and the network shows. I know I saw them in the DVD sold by the league (or SI as a subscription offer)

The bottom line for me is that these are highly competitive athletes. The kind of people who will bet on, work hard toward any little thing if you turn it into a competition of sorts. The $$$ doesn't matter in most instances, it's the "King of the Hill" bragging rights you get as a member of the "club". The right to talk trash about another "win" is what matters, beyond virtually anything else.

$20-30-40K. Big deal. I've seen more athletes(traders, lawyers & others) drop that at one party with little care. (Not that I condone that but...)

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Then you and me, sir, are going to hang out.

People want to see linebackers blast quarterbacks into the middle of next week. They want to see blood on the ice. They want to see cars explode at Talladega. Let's put Christians and Lions back in the Colosseum. GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT!

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Don't take it personally.

Not me. I just want to be surrounded by young, hot, big chested women and have lots and lots of free time.

Can you help me out with that one?

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Quit your job and meet me at Heavenly Bodies.

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Don't take it personally.

In that case, I'm gonna need you to run a bounty program for me.

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I turned on B&B in the middle of this newest allegation. I just read about the convicted felon throwing money into the bounty war chest. I am wondering just how stupid Sean Payton can be? I mean your getting paid millions to lead 53 men and you can't tell basic wrong from right??? If I was the owner,he would have been fired yesterday.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

that would be great if it happened..give payton a year off and hire him when lovie is canned.

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Many football players have said their intent on every single play was to knock whoever they were hitting out of the game. The strategy to literally do whatever you could to knock someone out of the game exists with or without the bounty system. It's fundamental to the game.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

He went to Eastern. Soooo...........

.....yeah. Next question.

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the only issue should be that it was being handled within the organization. the higher ups were not only encouraging but running it, and that's the problem. and i'd be amazed if no other team is doing this. the most frustrating thing about it is that williams couldn't even run it right because his defense cost the saints the past 2 playoff years.

give me a break with the "intent to injure" bullshit. first of all, it makes no sense to make $100 for an illegal hit you're going to get fined $10,000 for. but aside from that...the whole point of the game is to hurt the other player.

If that was really true then no QB would ever last the season. It's just something they say to make excuses.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

What are you basing that assumption on? Most of the players added the caveat that the hit had to be legal. It's not as easy to injure somdone under those circumstances as you suggested.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

For the last 7-9 years,our Bears have had two of the best LB's in the NFL. Maybe a few times,I thought they used excessive force. I never really noticed anything but a hard tackle...nothing cheap.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

The fact that I've watched a ton of football and besides certain players I've never seen someone choose aggressive tackling rather than smart tackling. I'm not talking about helmet to helmet hits either which are illegal. It just seems to me that most players would rather make a tackle than make a huge hit. I mean, the Bears seem more interested in trying to strip the ball than anything.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

John Lynch was one of the best safeties in the league in his prime and always went for a big hit over a sure tackle. ESPN used to glorify it and show dramatizations where it showed him plowing through the receiver and them three imaginary mirror images right behind the player. I doubt you've watched significantly more football than guys that have played in the league and the vast majority of the ones who have spoken out say that it's a violent sport by nature and most realized that there was an unspoken intent to knock eachother out of the game when they played.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I didn't say that no players did it, so referencing one doesn't really mean anything. Even then, there is a big difference between being a hard hitter and starting every play saying "I'm going to knock a player out of the game". I don't think you can play that way because you are almost guaranteed to get a penalty for a late hit if you are in psycho mode. That's probably why certain players are constantly getting fined. They are looking to injure.

Maybe I'm biased as a Bears fan but the whole Bears defense seems more interested in getting a turnover than they do injuring the other player.

As I said though, if this was a game of 11 players trying to injure another 11 players no one would finish the season. They aren't going to take it easy on them like it's the Pro Bowl but the goal is to stop the offense and not to put a guy on a stretcher.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Usually the best way to stop the offense is by taking their QB out of the game. That's why most defensive players say they are trying to, subconsciously or not, knock the guy out on every hit. I only used one example because it was the most obvious one, but what I say doesn't really matter. Former players know much more about the nature of the sport than you or I ever will and it seems like they would disagree with what you're saying. I'm just going with the guys who have more knowledge than I do of the topic.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Why does it happen so infrequently then? If they are literally making injuring the opposing QB the #1 goal on every play then there would be injuries all the time.
Once again, let me point out that the Bears often avoid big hits in order to try and strip the ball instead. Other teams do the same.

These guys are too big and too fast in order to fail to injure as much as you seem to think they do. The #1 priority is to stop the opposing team from getting a touchdown on you during the play.

Are you honestly telling me that Charles Woodson is more interested in injuring another player than he is stopping them from catching a pass or running past them? I can't believe that.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

1.) It happens infrequently because it's harder to injure someone legally than you are suggesting.

2.) Charles Woodson most likely wants to do whatever it takes to win the game. I'm not saying he wants to injure someone more than he wants to win. I'm saying he's willing to injure someone in order to win. But a CB isn't as good of an example. A DE and LB are taught to hit as hard as they possibly can. As long as it's a legal hit, what more can they do to try to hurt someone than hit them as hard as possible? That's why it's pretty obvious you're just being dramatic when saying nobody would finish a season if they were trying to hurt the other players. Most experts and players seem to agree that it's a violent sport by nature and that one of the inherent objectives is hurting the other teams player.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

i am not sure how much football you guys watch... defenses want to hurt the qb..nothing wrong with that...did you miss the bears giant game last year?

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Which is why most players concentrating on simply making the play. I will not believe that most NFL players line up thinking about injuring someone as priority #1. You seem to think they do.
It depends on the position but there are plenty of ways to take someone's knees out that are legal. Surprisingly though, they aren't as effective in actually stopping the play which is the #1 priority.

Let's play a game though. Pick the starting defense of the Packers from last year and tell me how many players you think are actively looking to injure someone on every play. I'll do the same for the Bears. The only one I can think of Peppers and even that I'm not so sure of as he seems more interested in stopping the play.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You are confusing hits with intent to injure. There are ways to hit a QB that makes it much more likely that they are injured. For some reason, most players make the play that is most likely to result in a sack or fumble.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

with the rule changes the last few years it is a joke what gets called as a penalty now when it comes to the qb being hit...the defense has not changed it's mindset the goal is still to inflict pain ..just have to aim above the knees and below the shoulders.

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I never said it was the #1 priority. I said it's an objective inherent to the sport. Are you suggesting you know more about the sport and the mentality it takes to play at the pro level than professional players do? Because guys like Marecellus Nas, Darren Woodson, Tom Jackson, Ryan Clark, Mike Golic, Bill Rpmanowski(ok, bad example maybe) all suggest that they recognized they were trying to hurt the other player legally on every play and the other guy felt the same way. Why do you think they're lying?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul